This week, on my podcast, The Influence Continuum, I spoke with Dr. Bandy X. Lee, the forensic psychiatrist and world-renowned expert on violence, who is the editor of the best-selling book, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 37 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President. Years after she and other mental health experts warned that Trump was unfit and a danger to the public, we continue to see vivid proof that the public has suffered because of the censoring of experts! Her recent book is Profile of a Nation: Trump’s Mind, America’s Soul. What was behind the mainstream media silencing of credible experts like Dr. Lee, and myself, and even the most renowned names in mental health? We discuss this and many important topics like the “duty to warn” and the importance of mental health, especially in people who are supposed to be public servants. We discuss the 25^th Amendment of the Constitution and how it could be bolstered to prevent anyone so grossly incompetent from coming to the Presidency again. We also discuss the corrupt and authoritarian family court system in the United States, which has contributed to diminishing our collective mental health: the subject of a forthcoming book. 

Bandy X. Lee, M.D., M.Div., taught at Yale School of Medicine and Yale Law School (2003-2020). In addition to an authoritative textbook, she published over 100 peer-reviewed articles and chapters, 17 edited scholarly books and journal special issues, and more than 300 op-eds in outlets such as The Guardian, The New York Times, The Boston Globe, The Independent, and Politico. Dr. Lee is currently president of the World Mental Health Coalition. 

Censorship in the Media 

The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 37 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President became an unprecedented New York Times bestseller. Within three months of its release, it was the number one topic of conversation, covered by mass media, and all significant networks were inviting Dr. Lee on to speak. A misinformation crisis began when the American Psychiatric Association (APA) aggressively silenced the topic. They tried to justify their public campaigns against independent experts by saying that speaking about the mental health aspects of the Trump Crisis would create a stigma against those with mental health issues. As Bandy Lee states, ‘All the literature shows that silence promotes stigma,’ not discussion. 

The APA said the experts in the book were unethical in making a “diagnosis” without meeting him in person. It said it violated the APA ethics code, but Dr. Lee was not making a diagnosis when calling Trump “dangerous.” She is not even a member of the APA, and no other mental health association has such a “rule.” Dr. Lee and other psychiatrists have experienced a great deal of censorship in the media due to the misuse of the so-called ”Goldwater Rule,” which has been incorrectly applied. I wrote a blog about my interview with Dr. James Fleming, where he explained the history of the “Goldwater Rule.” 

There is an obligation for experts to warn the public of a dangerous elected official, but they continue to be censored, and their warnings of dangers are ignored. As a result, no suggested interventions into the social, cultural, geopolitical, and civic dangers have been implemented. Despite Bandy Lee not being a member of the APA and the Goldwater rule being subordinate to a duty to protect society by warning against the dangerousness and unfitness of Donald Trump as president, she and her colleagues are aggressively silenced. The APA should lead the way in an ethical and professional obligation to protect society from dangerous individuals. Instead, it had been contacting media outlets to censor these experts. Now, all major television and radio outlets are scared to have top experts speak about this topic, and the New York Times removes Dr. Lee’s quotes when she is interviewed. If we cannot talk about this problem, it is a worrying situation for the future. 

The Psychological Dangers of Donald Trump Leading to a Public Health Crisis 

The opinions that Trump espouses are not simply a different political stance or everyday ideological discourse but symptomatic of mental unfitness, Dr. Lee argues. She calls the replication of his symptoms ”Trump Contagion,” as they spread across the general population like a contagious disease. When a person that dangerous is in power, be it Trump or a cult leader, false beliefs and misinformation spread rapidly. In today’s era of social media, 24/7, it isn’t hard for a figure like this to prey on psychologically vulnerable people. 

Dr. Bandy Lee has often said that controlling this mental health pandemic would be the key to controlling the COVID pandemic. Public health measures were ignored due to Trump’s authoritarianism, and America had the highest death rate per 100,000 of the population in the industrialized world.  

Without proper intervention, Trump has become more violent and delusional in his thoughts and beliefs, expanding into the public through the cult of Trump. Mental health experts are usually involved and consulted when we need to protect the public and contain dangerous individuals. From the courts to law enforcement, we rely on their opinion; yet professional opinion is ignored when discussing an unstable elected figure, posing disproportionately greater dangers. As a result, deception and information control were used to win elections and advance an agenda previously unpopular with the public, who would otherwise recognize it as destructive. 

The 25th Amendment 

The 25th Amendment includes a clause that if a president could not carry out his office duties for physical or mental capacity reasons, then the cabinet and vice president could step in and even involuntarily remove them. Medical and mental health data should have driven this exercise, but instead, because of the silencing of mental health experts, this became a purely political exercise conducted by the Vice President.  

Bandy Lee and her colleagues told the then-speaker, Nancy Pelosi, that mental health professionals should be consulted to succeed in her impeachment of Trump. They were not consulted, and both impeachments were unsuccessful. Regarding prosecution, Bandy Lee stated that the experts also advised, “This should be carried out in a way that takes into account mental health aspects so that Donald Trump cannot turn it into a purely political exercise and make it ineffective.” 

Dangerous Authoritarian Individuals in Power 

Dr. Bandy Lee notes that over her last 25 years of practice, ”the dangerous personalities that used to be confined in jails and prisons are increasingly taking up leadership positions in society.” We have seen what happens when individuals like Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin run societies. However, due to a crisis of misinformation and a lack of experience with these individuals, the general public is unaware of the widescale dangers. 

Corruption and Cult-Like Parental Alienation in the Family Courts 

In my interview with Dr. Lee, we then discussed a topic that needs more attention: the authoritarianism and secrecy that run through the family court system in America. They are the only court not bound by the law, as they are given broad discretions in secrecy. Family courts are a last resort for a judicial career; hence, the quality of those in operation is generally low. 

The family courts have become almost cult-like in the judges’ authoritarian reign and corruption, attracting dangerous personalities. Unregulated psychological experts without doctorates, who charge exorbitant fees, are used to make predetermined decisions. Reem Alsalem, UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women, in June 2023, stated, ”The tendency of family courts to dismiss the history of domestic violence and abuse in custody cases, especially where mothers and sometimes children have brought forward credible allegations of domestic abuse, including coercive control, physical or sexual abuse is unacceptable.” The family courts have become unregulated and unaccountable, with many children being transferred to the violent parent, even after many allegations of abuse, and away from the safe and protective parent, leading to hundreds of deaths per year. Bandy Lee calls this a ”hidden genocide” as certain types of people – domestic abuse victims – are targeted in the courts, and the public remains unaware. Family bonds with the safe, protective parent are removed, and predatory alienation ensues, similar to the tactics employed within a cultic group to break up a family. As Dr. Lee explains, the family courts are ”functioning as a mini cult in the sense that they advance a false narrative that the safe parent is actually abusive and the abusive parent is a good parent.” 

The World Mental Health Coalition (WMHC) 

Experts’ societal role is to fight against this misinformation and mind control and to share knowledge with the public for democracy to continue. Dr. Bandy Lee formed the World Mental Health Coalition in late 2017, consisting of around 1,000 mental health professionals concerned about societal mental health. It aims to bring together professionals to ”educate the public and policymakers about fitness for government leadership and to heal the fabric of society to prevent dangerous leadership in the first place.” Together, we can move towards a democracy where the public can access knowledge to make informed decisions. 

Resources: 

Dr. Bandy Lee’s Website  

The World Mental Health Coalition Website   

Dr. Bandy Lee and Dr. James Gilligan: Do We Surrender Our Moral Compass to Technical Rule? 

Yale Forensic Psychiatrist Bandy Lee Discusses the Dangerous Case of Donald Trump 

The Public Health Disaster of Donald Trump, a Narcissistic and Sociopathic President  

Subscribe to Dr. Bandy Lee’s Newsletter here.  

Follow Dr. Bandy Lee on Twitter here!  

Dr. Bandy Lee’s book, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 37 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President, is available here. 

The post The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump and Censorship of Experts with Bandy X. Lee M.D.  appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

On January 6, 2021, the seat of our federal government and the heart of our American democracy came under siege. Now, two years on, there is the opportunity to examine developments since the attack on the Capital and to look at what can be done about it. I was honored to be invited to speak about this at the New York Society for Ethical Culture this January 2023. The title of my talk was ‘Two Years After the Violent Coup Attempt.’ 

In my talk, I discussed some of the forces behind the insurrection attempt. Based on typical cult leader behavior, I predicted in 2019 that Trump would never voluntarily cede power and would attempt to create as much chaos and damage as possible. In my book The Cult of Trump, I also warned that his followers would become violent.  

Whenever I hear about a tragedy or destructive event, like the Jonestown massacre or the January 6 coup attempt, my first thought is always – I could have done that. When I was in the Moon cult, I would have obeyed any order from Sun Myung Moon, including breaking the law. But, when someone is under mind control, their real self, values, and beliefs are taken over by a new cult identity; they are programmed into a different reality. So, it is crucial to understand how undue influence works and how to protect ourselves and others.  

Authoritarian Movements Exerting Influence on Politics 

I explained in my talk how the events of January 6 were not just a result of the division created by Trump during his campaign. It was fuelled by various authoritarian interests that have been systematically breaking down the separation of Church and State and undermining the rule of law for decades. 

One of the most powerful movements supporting this is the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). It consists of about 40 million Americans who believe they are spiritual warriors against evil, satanic Democrats and that Trump is being used to do ‘God’s work.’ They do faith healings, deliverances, exorcisms, and speaking in tongues. Their leaders claim to be apostles who talk directly to God. They control their members’ behavior, information, thoughts, and emotion (see my BITE model). NAR folks believe in a theocratic takeover of American political institutions. So, while the media has kept saying that white Christian evangelicals are Trump’s base, it is a lot more complicated than that.  

Disinformation and Information Warfare 

An overwhelming amount of disinformation and propaganda has been circulated, especially by the right-wing media. For example, the Moonies-owned newspaper, The Washington Times, reported that it was Antifa at the attempted insurrection. This is information warfare; it is part of a campaign to spread propaganda and conspiracy theories that sow doubt and confusion to undermine the legitimacy of government and other institutions.   

Fourth Generation Warfare (4GW) is an advanced form of psyops (psychological operations) that aims to generate distrust in experts and institutions to make people more pliable for manipulation and authoritarian messaging. 4GW, as it relates to the failed insurrection, was used to convince the right wing that the federal government has no legitimacy and should be overthrown.  

With modern technology, this false and manipulative information can now spread across the internet and social media on a 24/7 basis. Personal data is also being collected and used for recruitment into authoritarian cults. Without understanding information warfare, individuals can be subject to mind control without knowing it.  

What Do We Do Now? 

While this might all sound like doom and gloom, it is not. Many people are already waking up to the reality that they were, in fact, believers in the Cult of Trump. Within NAR, a schism has formed between those sticking with the prophecy that Trump won the election in 2020 and those who accept that President Joe Biden was the legitimate winner.  

In my talk, I shared my thoughts about what we can do to stop those exerting undue influence from propelling the world into authoritarian darkness.  

It’s important for people to learn about mind control and how to talk to people who have been negatively influenced. Calling Trump supporters names is counterproductive to the goal of helping people have freedom of mind. Telling someone under mind control that they are brainwashed, or attacking their leader, will not work – it only makes their cult identity feel persecuted. Instead, we need to help people reality test and step back and think about how they came to adopt their new beliefs. Be respectful and patient, ask questions, offer support, listen, and try to educate. Learn something that will help empower you to reach out to family and friends that you may have blocked or stopped calling because they got in the Cult of Trump.  

Try to speak out and take a stand. If you’ve been in a mind control cult, you might consider sharing your experience if you feel able to. This will help to destigmatize having been in a cult and make it easier for people to exit the Cult of Trump. It is vital for former members of cults to come forward and tell their stories. This helps open up a conversation that falling under mind control can happen to almost anyone.  

Public education that focuses on understanding psyops, manipulation of information, and use of mind control in the media is critical – preventative education provides an inoculation against undue influence. In addition, we need to teach mental health professional educators, parents, and others how to support the people we love and help them achieve freedom of mind.  

By becoming well-informed citizens and staying anchored in our core values, unhealthy leaders will not be able to erode our precious rights and move us toward an authoritarian society. There is a lot of power in the collective. If people come together and pool their intelligence and their resources, then we can take action to move things in a positive direction.

Resources 

The Insurrection Attempt: Attack on Democracy 

Cult Involvement in the Attempt to Destroy Democracy 

A Call to Activism 

Talks by Steven Hassan at Ethical Culture Society of NYC 

Releasing the Bonds: Steven Hassan’s Story at the NY Ethical Culture Society 10-17-10 

The Cult of Trump: An Interview with Author Steven Hassan November 11, 2019 

Steven Hassan: ‘January 6: Two Years After the Violent Coup Attempt’ 

The post January 6 Violent Coup Attempt: Two Years Later  appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

Michael Cohen is a two-time New York Times best-selling author, first with his book Disloyal: A Memoir, and now with his latest book Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the Department of Justice Against His Critics. Cohen is famous for being the former attorney and personal ‘fixer’ for Donald Trump (2006-2018) and has testified for congress as well as New York’s Attorney General’s office and confessed he was in “The Cult of Trump.” I wrote about him in my book, and he is a courageous whistle-blower who, like me, has devoted an enormous amount of time and effort to shedding light on the disgraced and twice impeached former president.

Cohen admits that Trump influenced him and was willing to do things for him that he knew were wrong. I was delighted to have the opportunity to talk to Michael Cohen on my Influence Continuum podcast to hear about his unique experience within the cult of Trump, which has come at a high cost to his personal and professional life. 

Since his dramatic exit as Trump’s attorney and advisor, Cohen has faced up to the mistakes he made under Trump’s direction with sincerity and remorse. He is now working to become an agent of change, advocating for justice reform, exposing corruption, and educating people about what he calls “the cult of Trumpism.” He is the host of the top-rated news podcast Mea Culpa which I regularly listen to as he offers a former insider’s view, which is invaluable. Cohen also owns and operates the management consulting firm Crisis-X.

Undue Influence within The Cult of Trump

As one of Trump’s closest confidants for more than ten years, Cohen was one of Trump’s fiercest defenders. He offered him absolute loyalty and even said he would take a bullet for him. He explained that he had become “mesmerized” by his charismatic boss. 

In my book, The Cult of Trump, I explain how Trump employs many of the same techniques as prominent cult leaders – lying, insulting opponents, sowing fear and confusion, demanding absolute loyalty, shunning and belittling critics and former supporters, distracting and presenting competing versions of reality to confuse and coerce his followers. 

During his testimony before Congress, Cohen described how Trump never directly ordered him to lie but, like mob bosses, would make his wishes clear by speaking in “code” that those who worked with him understood. Trump would praise Cohen as a great lawyer one moment and then humiliate and criticize him the next. Alternating praise and criticism is a common technique in cults and other relationships involving mind control abuse.

How Mind Control Alters One’s Moral Compass

Cohen experienced Trump’s willingness to mislead, manipulate, and coerce first-hand. In his book, Disloyal: A Memoir, he also describes Trump as “a cheat, a mobster, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, and a con man.” 

When Cohen spoke at the House Oversight and Reform Committee in 2019, he seemed bewildered and expressed disbelief at how he had been so mesmerized by Donald Trump that he was willing to lie for him and do things that he knew were absolutely wrong. He reminded me of myself after I left the Moonies cult and how I had to grapple with the reality of my involvement. It was difficult to accept that I had become a fascist who would have obeyed any order from Sun Myung Moon or my superiors, including breaking the law.  

Government Corruption, Misinformation, and Threats

When Cohen left the cult of Trump–not through his own volition but through a form of ex-communication due to the legal proceedings – his real ordeal started. In our discussion, Cohen describes how:

• He wasn’t guilty of all nine counts against him but had to plead guilty
• Misinformation was fed to the media to discredit him in case he provided testimony and inside information about Trump
• He was put back in jail for failing to waive his First Amendment constitutional rights
• The Government failed to cooperate with his Freedom of Information requests
• His family was intimidated and threatened
• He developed Post Traumatic Stress Disorder 

Sadly, these are the type of situations that can occur when a leader, who believes themselves to be above the law, decides to go after their critics or former supporters. When the leader in question is a President of the United States who has psychological sway over his followers and other politicians, the checks and balances of a healthy democracy have clearly been eroded. 

In his latest book, Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the Department of Justice Against His Critics, Cohen discusses how the Department of Justice (DOJ), led by then AG Bill Barr, was weaponized to harass, threaten, and attempted to deprive him of his First Amendment right of Free Speech when he wanted to publish his first book. Cohen pled guilty to charges to protect his wife and survived 51 days in solitary confinement. For what? Lying about the number of times he spoke with Trump about the Hotel project in Russia. Disgusting, and Cohen is suing the government to do what he can to prevent the DOJ from ever being misused like this again. 

I believe that we can counter the threats to our democracy by becoming well-informed citizens, making careful judgments about the information we are exposed to, speaking out about the need to protect our democratic institutions, and remaining committed to the public good. As Cohen said, we are responsible for ensuring that our children and grandchildren “live with the same rights and even more rights than what we grew up with.”

Resources

Michael Cohen’s Mea Culpa podcast on Apple, Spotify, and Stitcher

Michael Cohen’s Mea Culpa Episode. Special Report!! The Making of a MAGA Fanatic + A Conversation with Cult Expert Dr. Steven Hassan

Disloyal: A Memoir

Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the Department of Justice Against His Critics

The Cult of Trump 

The post Former Trump Attorney Michael Cohen on His Experience in The Cult of Trump  appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

When asked about their idea of a cult, most people will conjure up the image of a group of religious devotees following an alternative doctrine and worshiping an authoritarian leader. Many cults fit into this category, but destructive cults take many forms, and mind control and undue influence are also present in political groups. In my book The Cult of Trump, I make the case that Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist and uses the “cult leader playbook.” When measured against my BITE model of Authoritarian Control (Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional Control), Trump fits the criteria of an individual exercising undue influence.

I recently had the honor of interviewing Joe Walsh, a former Republican Congressman from Illinois who was one of the leading voices of the Tea Party movement. He supported Donald Trump in 2016, but after witnessing lies, deceit, and fearmongering from Trump, as well as his open support of authoritarian leaders like Vladimir Putin, Joe became one of Trump’s most outspoken opponents. He waged a Republican primary challenge against Trump and in 2020 released the book F*ck Silence: Calling Trump Out for the Cultish, Moronic, Authoritarian Con Man He Is – the title reflects just how strongly Joe feels about the issue! Joe experienced many harmful elements within what he calls “the MAGA cult.”

Joe left the Republican Party in 2020 and is now a political independent. He is the Chairman of Center Street PAC, an organization dedicated to helping elect Republicans, Democrats, and Independents who put the country before the party. He also spends his time trying to educate people about the threat of Trump to the country. He also hosts a podcast, “White Flag with Joe Walsh.”

The Polarizing Effects of Fourth-Generation Warfare

I said in my book, and Joe agrees, that by the time Trump was elected in 2016, the social and political environment of the United States was ripe and ready for an individual like Trump to come to power and exert undue influence. Many Americans believed that our political system could not meet their needs. Joe identifies with this sentiment: “I understood who Trump’s voters were because they were my voters. I understood how angry and scared and frustrated they were, and I understood that they wanted disruption in our politics – I wanted disruption!”

Donald Trump seized upon people’s needs and fears and magnified them. Getting people to distrust experts, institutions, and science makes them more pliable for manipulation and authoritarian messaging. Questioning the government and the media are part of a healthy democracy. Still, Trump’s campaign used many us-versus-them techniques common in cults, along with ‘fourth-generation warfare’, a type of psychological warfare aimed at polarization. By telling his followers, “trust me,” “believe me,” and “only I can fix this,” Trump is exploiting the same ‘playbook’ used by other cult leaders.

The Digital Age Wires Us for Indoctrination

Digital technology allows destructive individuals or groups to control and manipulate people’s behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions. People no longer need to be physically isolated to be indoctrinated. Trump and his supporters are using social and mainstream media to gain access to followers in ways cult leaders like Sun Myung Moon, L. Ron Hubbard, or Jim Jones never could. They use the internet to weaken, divide, and disrupt the US government and program their own version of reality.

Joe and I discussed how social media is being used for hate, harassment, and misinformation and how managing this is challenging while still maintaining First Amendment rights. As a mental health professional, I am very concerned about how digital information can cause people to become anxious and depressed or radicalized and prompt them to act in ways that are out of character. I worry about the role of AI and social media on people’s mental health, so I support the regulation of digital media. I believe we also need to reformulate how politics works so that there are checks and balances in place to prevent the abuse of power.

Helping People Come Out of Mind Control

Earlier this year, I did a TEDx talk on how people can “reality-test” in order to know if they are being brainwashed, radicalized, or unduly influenced. I believe the recommendations I gave apply to Trump supporters in the same way they would to cult followers. Of course, not every Trump supporter is a fervent follower, and not every fervent follower is necessarily a member of the Cult of Trump. Still, I suggest taking time out from people who share your ideology and from sources of information that could reinforce your current point of view – turn off your cell phone, switch off your computer, walk in the woods, eat well, and listen to music that you love. Then, learn about models of mind control, particularly Chinese communist thought reform programs, and see whether you can identify any aspects of mind control in your own experience. This helped me get out of the Moon cult. Then, deliberately seek out critics and former members to hear a different perspective. Once you have done this, I suggest reflecting on how you came to adopt your current belief system.

If you have a friend or family member that you believe has been radicalized, I always say that it is better to be respectful and curious and not to call them stupid or cut off contact with them. That’s the worst thing you can do with someone who’s been unduly influenced because they need contact with non-believers who care about them. My Strategic Interactive Approach is based on the presupposition that respect, trust-building, and love are stronger than fear, hate, and mind control. It’s about finding common ground, asking questions, and having positive discussions rather than trying to prove your position is right.

There is so much stigma around being tricked or co-opted into a cult. The public falsely believes that only weak, stupid, or uneducated people can be sucked into a destructive cult. This is not true. Anyone in the right circumstances can become unduly influenced.

The reality is that mind control exists and is a potent threat to our lives, our democracy, and our nation. Now is not the time for division. Instead, we need to heal the rift through education, reconnection, and reconciliation. As Joe so aptly put it, “Speak your mind. If you love this country, don’t get discouraged. This is the time to really fight for it!”

Resources

Center Street Pac

“F*ck Silence: Calling Trump Out for the Cultish, Moronic, Authoritarian Con Man He Is” 2020 book

“White Flag With Joe Walsh” podcast by Joe Walsh

How to Tell if You’re Brainwashed? – Steve, Hassan’s TEDx Boston

Does Trump Display the Stereotypical Profile of a Cult Leader?

What Is Wrong with Asking “How to Deprogram People from a Fervent Belief in Trump?”

4th Generation Warfare and The Christian Right

Rewired: Protecting Your Brain in the Digital Age

The post Former Cult of Trump member and Congressman Joe Walsh on the Political Scene in the United States appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

In my book The Cult of Trump, I present a thesis that Donald Trump was a symptom of decades of right-wing maneuvering to gain power and institute a theocracy by eliminating the separation between Church and State, which the Founders of the Constitution tried to ensure would not happen. White evangelical Christians, among other powerful groups like The Family, Opus Dei, and the New Apostolic Reformation, appear to support this movement and, indeed, are the driving force behind it because they believe Trump is being used to do ‘God’s work.’

Someone very experienced in talking about this issue is Frank Schaeffer. He was born and bred into an evangelical fundamentalist life and went on to play an active role in helping to politicize evangelical leaders. He has now bravely written and spoken about his regret at the part he played in this process and is an active religious reform activist.

Frank Schaeffer is a New York Times bestselling author of more than a dozen fiction and nonfiction books. He is a self-taught documentary movie director, a feature film director, and an artist. He is, of course, also the son of the legendary Francis Schaeffer, a minister, theologian, prolific author, and one of the most influential figures in American evangelicalism.

Frank’s memoir Crazy for God is used as a textbook in the history of religion classes in universities because it provides a fascinating insight into the American evangelical movement. His latest book, Fall In Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save The Planet, Be Happy, is the culmination of a personal journey of liberation from his fundamentalist Christian past. It focuses on a joy-filled life centered around family, connections, and community.

I am delighted to have had the opportunity to interview Frank Schaeffer for my podcast, The Influence Continuum, about his personal experiences and the insights he has gained along the way.

The Religious Right Moves into Politics

Frank describes his experience growing up homeschooled on a humble fundamentalist mission in Switzerland, known as the L’Abri community, established by his parents, Francis and Edith Schaeffer, in 1954. Francis was adept at making evangelical Christianity relevant to the broader culture, particularly young people. In Frank’s words, “Dad was doing what nobody else in the evangelical world was doing, which was putting together a real attempt at a synthesis of evangelical Christianity with modern culture.”

By the 1960s, Francis’ ministry got on the radar of American evangelical Christianity, and his books became a global phenomenon. Evangelicals at the time were not involved with political issues like the pro-life movement, which had been a predominantly Roman Catholic concern. However, Frank convinced his father, arguing for a theological stance against abortion in the film series they were making together. This move helped politicize evangelicals on the issue of abortion and influenced the religious right to move into politics. The abortion issue became a catalyst that mobilized people into other areas, such as gay marriage, women’s rights, and religious freedom.

Evangelical Support for Trump

Fast forward to 2016, and Donald Trump became President on a broadly evangelical vote, in what Frank calls a “marriage of convenience” – evangelical leaders promised to bring votes if Trump supported many of the issues they were interested in, and this included appointing conservative judges to the federal court, like Amy Coney Barrett. The latter would be anti-abortion and committed to overturning Roe v. Wade.

“It was never true belief,” Frank explained. “The Evangelical leaders saw this as a means of fundraising based on energizing their folks to warn them about the liberal humanists.”

When Amy Coney Barrett was put forwards for the Supreme Court, I did three blogs and videos questioning the decision on the basis of her being a member of The People of Praise, which utilizes authoritarian mind control and is not religious. For me, religion implies faith and informed consent, the freedom to ask questions, and the freedom to check if somebody is abusing their authority from the pulpit. I have spoken with former members of People of Praise, and in my view, the behavior they describe fits the BITE model of Authoritarian Control, which raises concerns about Amy Coney Barrett’s ability to function independently in her role.

Frank Schaeffer as a Religious Reform Activist

The evangelism Frank was brought up in was very different from what we see today in evangelical Christianity, which has become heavily politicized. Frank described how the world he was raised in was about love and compassion and helping people develop a personal relationship with Jesus. But now, it has been corrupted by the desire for power and money and self-serving theology. Frank said he has changed his mind about evangelism and has become a religious reform activist because evangelical Christianity has moved away from being a religious movement and is now an authoritarian political movement. He questioned how he became part of something that now involved lies, criminality, and greed.

Mind Control: How People Are Influenced to Support People that Contradict Their Values

As a mental health professional, I am interested in how people can be influenced to give up their beliefs and support someone or something that is entirely against their values, religious orientation, and/or integrity.

Before I was recruited into the Moonies, I was avidly against Richard Nixon. Still, I was in the room with Sun Myung Moon when he said democracy was satanic; we needed to infiltrate the government, we needed a theocracy, and God wanted Nixon to be President. Then, when I had my near-fatal van crash and was deprogrammed, the lights turned on, and I couldn’t work out at the time how they did this to me.

Through mind control, people can get programmed into a different reality. Under the right circumstances, anyone can be persuaded to adopt new beliefs that conflict with their values. The people in power do not want the public to understand mind control, how it is done, and how to protect themselves.

The future of humanity depends on people becoming aware of the social influence processes being used on them by society’s institutions and learning ways to counter those processes.

Resources

Frank Schaeffer’s website: lovechildrenplanet.com

In Conversation with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

Exvangelicals Find a Voice and Speak Out Against Authoritarianism

Following Jesus in the Age of Trump: A Discussion with Dr. Mary Theresa Webb

Undue Influence, Judge Barrett and the People of Praise Covenantal Community

The post Evangelical Christians’ Move Towards Right-Wing Politics with Frank Schaeffer appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

In my book, The Cult of Trump, I explored the parallels between Trump and cult leaders, arguing that his presidency was much like a destructive cult. Trump’s lies, lack of conscience, inability to admit when he is wrong, and projecting his shortcomings onto others can be seen in many cult leaders. Trump’s indoctrination techniques to build fanatical devotion in his supporters are akin to those of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Ron Hubbard, and Sun Myung Moon. With his rise to the presidency, he became more authoritarian. Though he lost the election in 2020, he continues the lie that it was stolen, and his supporters continue to believe him.

They attacked the capitol building, threatened to hang the vice president, and beat a capital police officer to death. They went to jail for these crimes, and yet, many continue in their fanatical devotion to Trump. The fierce loyalty and obedience seen in cults are widely apparent among Trump supporters.

Are these people stupid, uneducated, and lacking in some crucial understanding of common sense? No, they are much like anyone who falls under the influence of cults, the undue influence of a man they have come to see as a savior, the only one who can make things right in a world that seems out of control. Under the right circumstances, anyone can be persuaded to believe in ideas that seem irrational or unjust. History proves this repeatedly, with the Holocaust providing a horrendous example.

Trump Voters Disillusioned 

What happens when people come out of the fog and realize their savior is all smoke and mirrors? Who are the previous believers in The Cult of Trump, and how did they see the light?

Melissa Joe Peltier is the two-time Emmy award-winning producer and director of the documentary The Game Is Up: Disillusioned Trump Voters Tell Their Stories recounting how a former GOP congressman; a rising Young Republican; a party-loyal Ohio farmer; a US Army Veteran & hardcore ‘MAGA’; and three evangelicals evolved from Trump supporters in 2016 to adamant adversaries in 2020.

Peltier interviews David Weissman, a US Army veteran, who was a Trump troll. Peltier discusses Weissman’s trolling behavior in the podcast and how he changed his viewpoint after trolling actress Sarah Silverman. Silverman used a strategic interactive approach, thanking him for his service as a veteran and asking questions about his ideas for managing issues such as gun violence. Once she started that line of questioning, Weisman began reality testing, which is a fundamental component of combating undue influence.

In the documentary, Peltier also interviews Batya Goldberg, who went to Trump rallies, which she described as a “drug,” feeling amped up, and even if you disagreed with things going in, you came out doing so. These are standard cult leader tactics.

“Say Good Things…”

Peltier discusses the idea that there are people in Trump circles who don’t like what he’s saying and doing, but they’re afraid to say it for fear they are wrong, given that no one else is voicing these ideas. Additionally, if they do voice these thoughts, they get shut down. When Goldberg expressed her disappointment to a reporter regarding what Trump said about Charlottesville, she received a call from the Republican Party in New York telling her she couldn’t say that. Republicans have to love Trump. They must say good things about him or nothing at all. This experience helped her awaken to reality, to understand that Trump was not the antidote to society’s ills that he claimed to be when he stated, “I alone can fix it,” as he accepted the Republican presidential nomination in Cleveland on July 21, 2016.

Goldberg discusses in the documentary the people who feel there should be only one party, the Trump party, which would be a dictatorship that would wipe out all the people those believers hate. Unfortunately, as Peltier explains, those believers don’t understand the catastrophic effects of dictatorships in every area of life nor know that Christian nationalism is not what our country was built on. It’s not what the founders envisioned. However, people who grew up in authoritarian cults, which include Bible or political cults, often seek out an authoritarian type of group because that’s what they know. That’s what makes them feel safe.

Peltier discusses wanting to understand Republicans, wanting to educate on the idea that in 2016, not all Republicans were racist, crazy evangelicals. They assumed Trump’s presidency would be a standard Republican presidency. This was not the case, and once they figured that out, they had a hard time changing their minds and admitting they were wrong.

Moving forward from Believer to Survivor

This is very common because the consequences of doing so are sometimes embarrassment, shame, and humiliation. We need to be conscious of helping people move forward by acknowledging that we all make mistakes and believe lies sometimes. We need to be gentle in our approach to those suffering undue influence so we can lead them out of the cult with kindness rather than repeatedly ripping them away and sticking their noses in their mistakes. Having respectful curiosity is paramount to helping people examine their beliefs, understand their thoughts and feelings, and ultimately change their minds.

We welcome all former members of all types of cults to tell their stories. This includes people who were in BITE model controlling relationships. We must normalize the fact that people can be deceived and manipulated and follow something or someone harmful and full of lies and abuse.

In The Game is Up documentary, we see how so many people fell into the cult and got out. It is possible, and if everyone starts telling their cultic abuse stories, we can eliminate the stigma and fear surrounding those stories as well as provide an exit strategy for those still stuck in the cult.

Resources:

The gameisupmovie.com

watch “The Game is Up” on Amazon or Google Play

As I Predicted in The Cult of Trump Book, Trump Might Act to Direct Followers to Become Violent but There Is Hope

The Definitive Guide to Helping People in the Cult of Trump

The post The Game Is Up: Disillusioned Trump Voters Tell Their Stories appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

If you have read Jason Kander’s book or listened to his self-read audiobook, you know why the title – Invisible Storm: A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD – is important. Jason sat in President Obama’s office as the president said, “I think you should run for president.” Dropping out of that race in the lead, Jason made what would have been a successful run for mayor of Kansas City. Yet, he eventually recognized his need to get help as a former army captain in the intelligence division for what he describes as a “secret psychological disorder,” PTSD. 

As Jason’s Invisible Storm raged internally, he says he missed out on fully experiencing a decade of his life. I am delighted to have had the opportunity to interview Jason about his experiences, his views, and this exceptional book. 

The Military Is Not an Authoritarian Cult 

The military is very different than being recruited into an authoritarian cult. You know what you’re getting into. There are standards. There’s a legal system. There are checks and balances. They’re not always working properly, but they are there. There’s a term limit. You get compensated, inadequate benefits perhaps, but you get a paycheck.  

But the whole notion of what happens at boot camp training can be thought of as teaching people to adopt a soldier’s identity, language, clothing, and rituals but most importantly, you are taught to dissociate. You’re given a soldier identity capable of pulling the trigger on other people. You need to put your old identity to the side so you can be effective as a soldier. My view of this psychological process is best thought of as egosyntonic dissociation. 

There’s never a legitimate reason to leave when you’re in a mind-control authoritarian cult. There’s never compensation. A code of ethics and a judicial system. Checks and balances are nonexistent. You’re stuck forever. Your cult identity can be thought of as egodystonic dissociation.

The extreme tactics of boot camp is a time-limited influence, and they know what they’re doing–breaking down a person’s identity, giving them a number, providing them with a uniform, etc. Yet, there is enough influence that it can be difficult for veterans to recognize their own PTSD symptoms. 

Realizing he has suffered from PTSD 

 One of Jason’s key points is about comparing trauma. He admits he spent years thinking, “It can’t be PTSD because I have it on good authority that what I did was no big deal.” That’s when he gave it any thought at all. His Invisible Storm seemed disconnected from his experiences as an intelligence officer. He describes his experiences as, “To go into meetings where there’s a reasonable possibility that I could be walking into a trap, that I could be kidnapped or killed, and to go into these meetings with unsavory characters of questionable allegiances, to gather information and bring it back, I’ve got to feel like that’s no big deal or I can’t do the job.” It makes sense why the mind works like that.  

So, vets often spend a lot of time suffering these symptoms because nobody ever disabused them of the notion that what they did was no big deal.  

Choosing Post-Traumatic Growth 

Jason describes how sometimes society looks at the fact that vets may hesitate to seek treatment and mistakes it for machismo. And sometimes it is. But oftentimes, it’s not that. Many times, veterans do not feel like getting help is a sign of weakness. Jason certainly never held that point of view.  

Then, why hesitate? Jason describes thinking he simply didn’t earn a PTSD diagnosis. “I shouldn’t have to get that help because I was told that what I did was no big deal, and I believed it.” 

So, he tries to get that message across to other vets. “What you did was a big deal, and you should get help.”  

The other contributing issue Jason describes is the portrayal of PTSD on TV or in the movies. You’ve seen untreated PTSD scenes with criminal behavior, suicide, or other violence, with a theme that suggests that PTSD is a terminal diagnosis. But there are just not many portrayals of post-traumatic growth, even though it is experienced by many, many people. People can, and do, get better! 

The Veterans Community Project 

Mid-August 2018, Jason toured the Veterans Community Project, a Kansas City-based nonprofit, as a VIP Mayoral candidate. A group of combat veterans started the Veterans Community Project to do two things: 

1. Curb the suicide epidemic by lowering the barriers to services by creating an outreach center where any veteran, regardless of the nature of their service, could walk in and access assistance 
2. Transition homeless veterans back into permanent housing out in the community by creating a village of tiny houses with wraparound comprehensive case management services.

They have an unheard-of 85% success rate. Inspired by what he saw, on October 2nd, 2018, Jason was going to drop out of public life and go get help at the VA. He soon walked through the doors of the outreach center like thousands of other Kansas City vets.  

Spoiler alert! One of the funniest parts of the book is when Jason started his therapy, but the doctor didn’t believe he had met Obama and assumed he was delusional. (No more spoilers, you’ll have to read the book or listen to the audiobook!) 

Because of his positive experience, Jason joined Brian Meyer, the co-founder, and CEO of the Veterans Community Project, three years ago as the President of National Expansion. In his words, “It’s the best civilian job I’ve ever had.” 

Jason’s Views on Controversial Topics 

During this fascinating discussion for the podcast, Jason shared his views on: 

• Gun Control – Especially because of his viral ad where he advocated for reasonable gun control measures while he assembled his rifle – blindfolded. He is on the board of the Giffords.
• Right-Wing Extremism – Viewed through the lens of American Exceptionalism, right-wing extremism centers on Trump. But the wave of global authoritarianism suggests Trump took advantage of an opportunity he did not create.  
• Suppression of Voters’ Rights in America – We are the battleground, but this issue affects the entire world. Is a lack of vulnerability at the core of this issue? 
• Cultural Distance within Our Nation – Could this result from the longest consecutive period in American history without some form of mandatory service? Is mandatory service a foundation for greater humanity?  
• Anxiety on Both Sides of the Aisle – Do those who fear “wokeism” have anything in common with those concerned about climate change? We discuss how to talk to those on the other side of the aisle to encourage unity and open discussion.  

Listen to the podcast to hear more about what Jason shares on these important topics.  

A Final Message 

His book is not so singular that it only applies to people in politics or the military. Trauma is all around us, and his journey is worth the read for anyone who has suffered trauma or lives with someone who has. I’d also recommend it to anyone who simply lives in our modern world.  

Post-traumatic growth is real and worth pursuing, no matter the nature of your trauma.  

Resources: 

• Invisible Storm: A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD 
• Check the Veterans Community Project website at VCP.org. All Jason’s royalties from Invisible Storm go to Veterans Community Project. 
• Giffords – saving lives from gun violence
• Jennifer Government (Jason’s wife Diana’s favorite book)
• Majority 54 podcast with Jason Kander and Ravi Gupta 
• Post Traumatic Growth article 
• The Cult of Trump – A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the President Uses Mind Control https://freedomofmind.com/the-cult-of-trump/  
• The Horror of School Shootings and Where We Go from Here – with S. E. Cupp https://freedomofmind.com/the-horror-of-school-shootings-and-where-we-go-from-here-with-s-e-cupp/  
• Advocating Election Integrity Post-Trump https://freedomofmind.com/advocating-election-integrity-post-trump/
• Ayn Rand’s Cult Leadership and Influence on the GOP and Celebrities https://freedomofmind.com/ayn-rands-cult-leadership-and-influence-on-the-gop-and-celebrities/ 
• The Rise of Right-Wing, Anti-Democratic Ideology in India: A Conversation with Narendra Nayak https://freedomofmind.com/the-rise-of-right-wing-anti-democratic-ideology-in-india-a-conversation-with-narendra-nayak/ 

The post Invisible Storm: A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD by Jason Kander  appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a reorganized, large Pentecostal and Charismatic movement reframed by the religious right to move into politics. My guests on this episode of the Influence Continuum are warning people about the dangers associated with the rise of the NAR. 

Frederick Clarkson has written and worked at the intersection of religion and politics for over four decades. He’s currently a Senior Research Analyst at Political Research Associates, a social justice research and strategy center in Somerville, Massachusetts. He’s also the author of a very important book that I recommend everyone read called Eternal Hostility – The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy, a subject that everyone’s talking about in the media these days. 

André Gagné is a full professor in the Department of Theological Studies at the University Concordia in Montreal, Canada. He has written a book in French on the evangelical supporters of Trump that will soon be published in English. His work focuses on Neocharismatic-Pentecostalism and the Christian Right, and he has done extensive research into understanding the background and the beliefs and practices of the New Apostolic Reformation.

Revealing Article in Religion Dispatches

Recently, Fred and André published an article titled “New Apostolic Reformation Faces Profound Rift Due to Trump Prophecies and “Spiritual Manipulation of the Prophetic Gift” in Religion Dispatches. The article describes a growing schism between movement prophets and apostles who say that God wants Trump to be restored as president and those who say such claims are an abuse of the role of the prophet in the Church.

The media keeps saying white Christian evangelicals are Trump’s base, but it’s more complicated than that.

Let’s begin with the Manhattan Declaration. In the mid-1990s, conservative Catholic intellectuals and Christian Right and evangelical leaders held a series of theological dialogues. Eventually, they had a breakthrough. A neoconservative Catholic professor Robert P. George found a way to bring them together in 2009. He found three concepts on which all could agree. And these were:

1. Life
2. Marriage
3. Religious Liberty

And agree they did. It became their platform in the culture war. 

1. Life means being anti-abortion 
2. Marriage is the opposition to marriage equality for LGBTQ people
3. Religious Liberty means exemptions from civil rights laws regarding life and marriage

These three ideas, life, marriage, and religious liberty began to appear on the websites of politically active Christian Right groups and the Pro-Life Secretariat of the Catholic Bishops. And most tellingly, Mitt Romney, in his 2012 acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention for the Republican nomination, specifically listed those three terms. As a Mormon, he needed to signal that he belonged, so he used the three themes of the Manhattan Declaration to do so.

That’s how important the Manhattan Declaration was to everything from the center-right to the far right in American politics. The 500 initial signatories included Catholic prelates and a wide range of evangelical leaders, including some NAR apostles. 

The Core of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) Movement

The core element of the NAR is apostolic governance. This is why the “prophetic standards” and the signatories mentioned in Fred and André’s article are important for the movement. It boils down to the question of authority: Who is recognized to speak on behalf of God? Since many so-called prophets had prophesied that Trump would be re-elected in 2020 and their predictions failed, they either had to refer to biblical examples where false prophets were killed due to their failed predictions, or blame Biden, the Democrats and the Satanic Illuminati for stealing the election. The “prophetic standards” are guidelines to rein in the prophets and their political prophecies. But will they work? Fred and André doubt that some prophets will comply.

The Question of Dominionism

Now, people in apostolic centers and networks don’t have issues with authoritarianism because they’re already drilled this way. The internal dominionism exercised through the leadership of apostles in their centers and networks is now being taken out into society. 

The political marketing strategy to move dominionism into society is called the “Seven Mountains Mandate:”

1. Religion
2. Family
3. Education
4. Government and Law
5. Media, News, and Commentary
6. Arts and Entertainment 
7. Business and Economics

The theory is that if they can control these seven spheres of culture, then they can gain “dominion” over society. The NAR thus seeks to delegitimize and eliminate the institutions of democracy and other Christian traditions as obstacles to dominion. 

This is the threat that they pose to civilized society all over the world.

Is It Hopeless? What Can We Do?

Few are talking about the New Apostolic Reformation, let alone the rift, and the opportunity presented here. But there are groups that are making a difference. Supporting these organizations is a place to start. 

• Christians Against Christian Nationalism is a wonderful joint effort of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, mainline denominational leaders, and even some Catholics and other evangelicals. 
• Americans United for Separation of Church and State website says, “Separation of church and state guarantees religious freedom, a fundamental right. Americans United shields our shared laws from the influence of any one religion so we can be free to come together as equals and build a stronger democracy.”
• The Interfaith Alliance works to “protect faith and freedom by respecting individual rights, protecting the boundaries between religion and government, and uniting diverse voices to challenge extremism and build common ground.”

Ultimately, the task is to figure out how we are all going to learn to live with one another in relative peace and harmony. We need to do this, even as we need to understand that there are people out there who think we are under the influence of demonic forces. That we are even infested with demons in some way. We need to focus on the fact we are only human beings. We may differ on religion and politics, but we’re still human beings. We’re not supernatural agents preparing for an end-times religious war.

If we value constitutional democracy, we know what to do. We have to continually inform people. Plus, we need to recognize and adapt to the Christian Right’s strategy of long-term voter mobilization. The rest of us constitute a far greater majority. 

Resources:

• • Christian Right Denialism is More Dangerous Than Ever: a Reporter’s Guide to the New Apostolic Reformation Part
  • When it Comes to Societal Dominion, the Details Matter: a Reporter’s Guide to the New Apostolic Reformation Part II
  • Recapturing Religious Freedom & Defending Democracy: Interview …
  • Religious Freedom vs. Christian Dominionism – Freedom of Mind …
  • freedom of religion Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • theocracy Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • Christianity Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • The Attempt to Redefine Religious Freedom – Freedom of Mind …
  • Errant Belief #4: “He’s an Adult. We Have No Right to Interfere …
  • The Netflix Docuseries “The Family”: A Review by Steven Hassan …
  • Rod of Iron Ministries and Its Role in Carrying Out the Attack on the …
  • Christian Nationalism, Dominionism, the New Apostolic Reformation …
  • New Apostolic Reformation Archives – Page 2 of 2 – Freedom of …
  • Undue Influence Archives – Page 5 of 7 – Freedom of Mind Resource …
  • Following Jesus in the Age of Trump: A Discussion With Dr. Mary …
  • critical thinking Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • Christian Right Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • My Top Blogs About The Cult of Trump – Freedom of Mind Resource …
  • New Apostolic Reformation Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource …
  • Announcing My New Book with Simon and Schuster Entitled The …
  • The Cult of Trump Book: Exciting Positive Reactions – Freedom of …
  • Christian Right Denialism is More Dangerous Then Ever: a Reporter’s Guide to the New Apostolic Reformation Part
  • When it Comes to Societal Dominion, the Details Matter: a Reporter’s Guide to the New Apostolic Reformation Part II
  • Recapturing Religious Freedom & Defending Democracy: Interview …
  • Religious Freedom vs. Christian Dominionism – Freedom of Mind …
  • freedom of religion Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • theocracy Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • Christianity Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • The Attempt to Redefine Religious Freedom – Freedom of Mind …
  • Errant Belief #4: “He’s an Adult. We Have No Right to Interfere …
  • The Netflix Docuseries “The Family”: A Review by Steven Hassan …
  • Rod of Iron Ministries and Its Role in Carrying Out the Attack on the …
  • Christian Nationalism, Dominionism, the New Apostolic Reformation …
  • New Apostolic Reformation Archives – Page 2 of 2 – Freedom of …
  • Undue Influence Archives – Page 5 of 7 – Freedom of Mind Resource …
  • Following Jesus in the Age of Trump: A Discussion With Dr. Mary …
  • critical thinking Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • Christian Right Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource Center
  • My Top Blogs About The Cult of Trump – Freedom of Mind Resource …
  • New Apostolic Reformation Archives – Freedom of Mind Resource …
  • Announcing My New Book with Simon and Schuster Entitled The …
  • The Cult of Trump Book: Exciting Positive Reactions – Freedom of …

The post The Growing Rift Inside the New Apostolic Reformation with Frederick Clarkson and André Gagné appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

I’ve been hosting the Influence Continuum podcast for over seven months, and I’ve spoken with guests on topics ranging from election integrity to 4th Generation Warfare and the Christian Right. It is plausible to say that I would not even be investigating any of these topics had I not encountered the work—and later met—the esteemed guest of my first ever podcast episode, Dr. Robert Jay Lifton.  

Dr. Lifton joined me for an urgent conversation when the show debuted back in January 2022.  I owe an immense debt of gratitude to Dr. Lifton’s work and his mentorship, both of which resulted in significant milestones for me. His intellectual work, specifically Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of ‘Brainwashing’ in China, was fundamental to my deprogramming from the Moonies. Reading his psychological analysis of brainwashing in the 1950s style of Chinese Communism, I was alerted to the parallel elements of mind control present in my own cult group environment.  When I later met him in person, his mentorship helped me pivot from being a victim of the cult to a survivor. This shift was instrumental in helping me to later develop my work, counseling others on mind control and undue influence, and serving as a model of “getting out”. 

Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism was published in 1961. But Dr. Lifton’s work on politics, culture, and psychology has continued since then, his analysis of our world remaining urgent today. He has taken on topics from the transformative impact of survivors of Hiroshima to the dual identities of Nazi Doctors. His most recent book is called Losing Reality: On Cults, Cultism, and the Mindset of Political and Religious Zealotry. 

SHIFTING FROM VICTIM TO SURVIVOR 

In our discussion, we focus on the potential of shifting from a victim to a survivor and what that means for individuals and society. Indeed, Dr. Lifton believes survivors are uniquely positioned to help us navigate a precarious world animated by a bombardment of existential threats, one that is so clearly on the brink of geopolitical disasters.   

Similar to my own work on The Cult of Trump, Lifton sees the “deep danger” our U.S. democracy faces. Concurrently, he sees a widespread increase of “death anxiety,” exacerbated by mass events like the COVID-19 pandemic, the threat of nuclear war, and the current and impending damage of climate change.  Alongside these catastrophes, Dr. Lifton notes, we are presented with a denial of these dangers, from manipulative politicians like Trumpists to conflict-baiting voices in the media.  

This blend of actual threats that surround us, coupled with denial, weighs on us as creatures who experience what Dr. Lifton names symbolic immortality. As Lifton argues, we are “the animal that knows we die [and] we spend much of our lives dealing with that knowledge.” This feeling of immortality can be expressed biologically through children and grandchildren, or through a sense of being connected to something larger than ourselves. 

THE ROLE OF SURVIVORS IN A PRECARIOUS WORLD

The problem now—especially with an increase in death anxiety—is that a feeling of larger human connectedness is threatened. This threat can lead to the increasing appeal of religious, spiritual, and secular phenomena, and it can challenge us to find new sources of fulfillment. 

Here, again, Dr. Lifton sees survivors as key, even “emerging at the forefront” of this process of “renewal.” In one example, he points to how survivors of the Hiroshima bombings are now leading voices on the dangers of nuclear war, using their “authenticity and experience to make [themselves] heard.” In other words, these individuals’ shifts from victims to survivors have been critical to helping the rest of the world face the threat of nuclear disaster. Their efforts open more hopeful narratives, offering us a way to enact healthy forms of symbolic immortality. 

I can speak first-hand to the power of shifting from an identity of victim to survivor. In another timeline, without being able to reference Dr. Lifton’s research on brainwashing, I may have continued as an influential member of the Moonies. In yet another timeline—but without the chance encounter of his mentorship—I may have exited the cult successfully but been left unable to make the transition from victim to survivor. Encountering Dr. Lifton’s intellectual work helped me to leave the cult, and experiencing his personal mentorship enabled me to transition to being a survivor, later helping me to use my experience for something positive.  

THE CHALLENGES OF SHIFTING FROM VICTIM TO SURVIVOR 

The transition from victim to survivor is not automatic. It takes a thoughtful approach. When I met with Dr. Lifton in his Yale office, he expertly used the classic psychological technique of framing to see myself not as a novice lacking worth, but as an emerging expert with something important to contribute.  As Dr. Lifton told me at the time, he just wrote about the experience (of brainwashing), but I lived it. I went on to use this guidance to interpret my experience in the Moonies through the lens of academic psychology, earning a Master’s in counseling in 1985. I then started a practice, in which I’ve counseled hundreds over decades. 

This approach he brought to me—one that persists in his work today—contrasts with an ideology that says victims in some way deserve the treatment they receive. This attitude is a dangerous and inaccurate ideology bolstered by spiritual doctrines like the law of positive attraction. Instead, Dr. Lifton sees promise in survivors helping us to confront the immense challenges around us, and ahead of us, none of which are preordained. 

That does not mean he is, by default, optimistic. Nonetheless, I asked him if he had a reason for hope—especially focusing on the role of how survivors can be transformative, even “heroic resistors.” 

He responded: “I can’t claim anything like heroic behavior, because I haven’t suffered these things, but I have in my work tried to emphasize what can be grasped in the way of hope from each of these studies. I mentioned, for instance, the extraordinary role of Hiroshima survivors in influencing the world. Their message about nuclear weapons can’t be erased and has had its very positive developments…”

He continued: “I would also say we are not able…to predict the future. The future is open. The future is not ordained. So, by seeing the terrible threat to the democratic future that is in itself a dimension of hope which we can pursue in favor of renewal.” 

Additional resources: 

About Dr. Lifton

Books by Dr. Lifton

Dr. Lifton’s Psychology Today Blog

Interview with Dr. Lifton

The post Moving from Victim to Survivor in Precarious Times — A Conversation with Robert Jay Lifton, M.D. appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

After he lost the 2020 election, Donald Trump spouted lies and claimed that he had won. In an attempt to counter Trump’s lies and promote confidence in the election results, prominent Democrats and election officials said that the 2020 election was the most secure election of all time. However, real vulnerabilities in our election system exist, and Trump’s lies do not justify ignoring legitimate election security concerns.

In a recent episode of my podcast, The Influence Continuum, I interview Jennifer Cohn — election integrity advocate, writer, and journalist. Last year, she published a Medium article, “Public officials provided false assurances about the legitimacy of Trump’s poll-defying win in 2016.” She warns of threats to election integrity and encourages lawmakers to take action to make the election process more secure and transparent.

Vulnerabilities in US Elections

In 2016, after media reports that Russian hackers had targeted the US election system, many people in positions of public trust made statements assuring Americans that voting machines could not have been hacked because the machines are not connected to the Internet.

These statements misled at best: in many states, precinct-based ballot scanners (used to tabulate votes at in-person voting locations) did and still do connect to the Internet and could be vulnerable to hacks.

In 2016, James Comey testified to Congress: “The voting system in the United States .. is very, very hard for someone to hack into…Those things are not connected to the Internet, but the voter registration systems are.”

Thomas Hicks, who has served as chairman of the US Election Assistance Commission (EAC) — made similar statements and assured Congress that voting machines do not connect to the Internet.

However, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Rhode Island, Tennessee, and Indiana all use wireless cellular modems in some or all of their precinct ballot scanners. County election officials use cellular modems to transfer unofficial results from the precinct scanners to the county central tabulators. Cybersecurity experts have confirmed that cellular traffic goes through the Internet.

Even states that do not use cellular modems can still be susceptible to internet hacks. According to election security experts, most election management systems are sometimes connected to the Internet. The data that is programmed into them often passes through a system connected to the Internet.

Some people have argued that it would be impossible for hackers to change the outcome of a presidential election because our election system is decentralized: counties count and report their election data independently. While it is true that our election system is decentralized, in a close election, hackers would only need to change the results in one swing state — perhaps only several immediate precincts in a swing state.

Furthermore, only a handful of private vendors account for most electronic voting systems in the US. If somebody hacks one of the top vendors, they could theoretically spread malware to voting systems across the country.

Lack of Election Transparency Leads to Authoritarianism

The US election process is not transparent enough, which is dangerous.

Cohn and several cyber security experts have warned — even before the 2020 election — that the lack of transparency in the US election system could lead to civil unrest. Even if our election system was utterly secure, many people would not trust the results without transparency. And authoritarian leaders could claim that the results are false, which Trump did on January 6th.

Furthermore, overstating the security of the election without investigating possible threats could lead to unfair results. Democrats have — for the most part — remained silent about the vulnerabilities in our election system, which is alarming. Democrats should not be willing to concede to Republicans without checking to make sure the results are fair.

For the most part, Senator Ron Wyden was the only member of Congress who leveled with the American people about the potential impact of Russia’s attack on America’s election infrastructure in 2016. In a 2019 floor speech, he said, “People are always saying, well, no votes were changed [in 2016]. Nobody knows that! Because we wouldn’t know that unless we have a real forensic analysis, you really broke the system down, and that hadn’t been done.”

What You Can Do to Promote Election Integrity

1. Contact your elected officials and let them know that election security is important to you.

Before the 2020 election, Democrats introduced the SAFE Act, an election-security bill that would ban paperless voting machines, ban voting systems that connect to the Internet and require rigorous manual audits for all federal races. The SAFE Act would have been a significant step toward promoting election integrity, but Republicans blocked the bill, and Democrats have yet to reintroduce it. Let your representatives know that you support this bill, and pressure them to promote election integrity.

1. Become a poll worker or observer.

Election workers and observers are essential to successful elections. If you care about making sure that votes are counted fairly, contact your county political party to sign up to be a part of the process.

1. Consume media carefully.

There is a lot of election disinformation on the Internet, and it can be difficult to know which sources are trustworthy. Even within credible publications like The New York Times, only some journalists have been upfront about the vulnerabilities in our election system, while others have downplayed them. She says the same is true of election-security experts.

Cohn recommends the following list of trustworthy election integrity advocates to follow on Twitter: @JennyCohn1, @MarilynRMarks1, @SEGreenhalgh, @TheBradBlog, and @ScrutineersUS. She says that trustworthy experts with Twitter accounts include @rad_atl, @harrihursti, @philipbstark, and @jhalderm.

1. Counter election disinformation respectfully.

Election integrity depends on a well-informed public. Authoritarian leaders like Trump push disinformation and use fear to advance their political agenda and undermine the electoral process.

When you encounter people who believe Trump’s election lies, speak to them respectfully. Lashing out at Trump supporters or calling them stupid just reaffirms their fears that they are being persecuted. Instead, try to listen to their concerns and find common ground. If we are kind to each other, we can work together to uphold the electoral process.

Jennifer Cohn: Public officials provided false assurances about the legitimacy of Trump’s poll-defying win in 2016.

Jennifer Cohn: 2016: The attack on America’s election infrastructure

FOM: Russia, Trump, Propaganda and Disinformation: Discussion With Investigative Journalist and Analyst Kseniya Kirillova

Politico: Computer researcher to Congress: ‘It’s possible’ for hackers to alter election

NBC NEWS: New warnings of hacking risks for voting systems connected to the Internet

The post Advocating Election Integrity Post-Trump with Jennifer Cohn appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

Attorney Douglas Brooks is a truly remarkable man. Formerly a specialist in franchise law, he now devotes his time to helping people defend themselves against the financial depredation of multi-level marketing companies, known as MLMs. He is tireless in fighting against an industry dedicated to bamboozling money from ordinary people with promises of exorbitant wealth for little to no work. From helping to bring down the “Consumer Buyline” scam run by now-imprisoned NXIVM cult leader Keith Raniere, to appearing in the Herbalife documentary Betting On Zero, to organizing the first global conference on multi-level marketing schemes. The second such conference will be taking place on June 10th and 11^th this year; I am honored to be speaking there, along with William Keep, professor of the College of New Jersey School of Business; Peter Vander Nat, a former economist at the Federal Trade Commission; Stacie Bosley, an economist at Hamelin University in Minnesota; retired sociologist Janja Lalich, author of the seminal recovery book Take Back Your Life; and Bonnie Patton of truthinadvertising.org, who will be the keynote speaker.

What is a Multi-level Marketing Group (MLM)?

To understand how and why these organizations capture victims and drain their bank accounts, it is first necessary to understand what a multi-level marketing scheme is and how it is different from other ways of selling. The first term is direct selling – simply put, any time someone sells something without a brick-and-mortar store (the door-to-door encyclopedia and vacuum-cleaner salesmen of my youth would be a prime example). Brooks points out that there is nothing inherently wrong with this model: “it’s American as apple pie.” Many MLMs like to refer to themselves as “direct sellers” – the powerful lobbying group that defends their “right” to defraud the public is the Direct Selling Association – but there is an important difference: in an MLM, those who make money do not make money from selling products, but from recruiting others to join the scheme.

It works like this: Mary recruits Sally, who, after buying an inventory of “products” from the MLM company, tries to sell it to anyone she can (usually family and friends).   The MLM company pays a portion of Sally’s purchase to Mary as a “commission.”  Sally then recruits Alice and Helen, who also purchase products from the MLM company and the company then pays a small commission to Sally and a bigger commission to Mary.   Importantly, Sally and Mary will only receive commissions if they keep on buying more inventory, regardless of whether they are able to sell the products at a profit.  This goes on for as many levels as can be recruited, with a steady income funneled upwards to those at the top of the pyramid, while those not at the top are rarely able to recoup what they have paid for the merchandise. The way the system plays out, some 97 to 99 percent of those involved in multi-level marketing lose money. “It’s like buying a lottery ticket for last week’s lottery,” Brooks says. “The winners have already been selected.”

This model works against standard franchise logic: a McDonald’s franchise will not benefit from another restaurant right across the street, as they would be in direct competition for the same customer base. This “cannibalization” is an inherent feature of an MLM: “distributors” are pressured to recruit and sell to their friends and family – assuring an unhealthy level of overlap between Alice’s customers and Helen’s.

Another important – and much more disturbing – difference from the standard franchise model is transparency. If I were to buy a McDonald’s, before signing anything, I would be given a complex, phone-book thick document of financial disclosure – including how much money I could realistically expect to earn, the success rates of similar franchises in the area, the exact terms of the deal, what is expected of me, and what I can expect as the new owner. For MLMs, however, there is a loophole –  if the initial investment in a “business opportunity” is less than five hundred dollars, no transparency or disclosure is necessary; the person recruiting you into the MLM has no legal obligation to tell you anything other than what they want you to hear: a recruiter can promise you “instant” wealth, the lifestyle of a millionaire, that you will be able to quit your job and own multiple vacation homes, expensive cars and boats – all for little money down and only working part-time.

Failure to Act by the Federal Trade Commission

When the Federal Trade Commission tried to close this loophole in the late 1990s by proposing a new “Business Opportunity Rule”, the Direct Selling Association, a wealthy and influential lobbying group, mobilized its forces and persuaded 15,000 MLM distributors to send “cookie-cutter” form letters to the FTC, pleading that their industry was in danger.  The DSA also persuaded eighty congressmen to send letters, the FTC was cowed into backing off; to this day, no transparency – or honesty – is required of MLMs and their recruiters, and they are careful to put their required “start-up” fee at less than $500; ACN, the MLM endorsed by former President Donald Trump, charges exactly $499 as its entrance fee.

For an MLM distributor, lack of transparency is part of the selling toolbox: many recruiters will not even mention the company name to potential recruits, getting them to agree to a meeting using the “curiosity” model founded by Amway, the “great-granddaddy” of all MLMs. Prospective recruits are told that they are being offered an opportunity, but they are told nothing more until they agree to meet with the recruiter, becoming a captive audience to a sales pitch.

Alongside the lack of transparency is an unhealthy dose of magical thinking, courtesy of such New Thought traditions of “the Secret” and the Law of Attraction – this battery of psychological manipulation techniques also includes toxic positivity and victim-blaming; distributors who do not make the millions they were promised are told that they did not have the “correct” mindset, or that they failed due to negative thoughts, or simply not trying “hard enough.” There is an entire “shadow” industry enveloped within the MLM world of books, tapes, and lectures sold to distributors, “educating” them in the “right” way of thinking.

MLMs also deliberately recruit among the disenfranchised and the disadvantaged, aiming their pitches at those who are desperate for extra income – at last year’s conference on MLMs, I was surprised to learn that some 75% of those in MLMs are women. People who are already in other high-control groups are also a likely target; they are often looking for extra income, they have a ready-made group of potential customers in their fellow members, and if their group espouses some form of the Law of Attraction or similar magical thinking, they are primed for the belief system used to control the members of an MLM. In Utah, the MLM capital of the world, there is a standing joke that MLM stands for “Mormons Losing Money.” Even former cult members can fall prey to recruitment: soon after exiting the Moonies, I was approached by fellow former members offering me a “business opportunity” in their MLM. Many MLMs will go overseas, preying on those in third-world countries, perpetuating the lie that their industry is a pathway to a better lifestyle, the American Dream overseas. “It’s one of our worst exports,” Brooks observes.

An MLM distributor is urged to view friends and family as potential customers or even recruits; it is common for these people to become overwhelmed with the constant sales pitch. Family members and friends who express doubt about the MLM or its products will be labeled “dream-stealers,” and, just as in any high-control group, those who cannot be won over must be ignored or even shunned. In the world of MLMs, your only “reliable” source of support resides within the organization – and any lack of success you experience is your fault.

Many MLMs will use conferences and conventions to drain additional funds from their distributors, while also bringing them into a tightly controlled environment, featuring flashing lights, loud music, rousing speeches, and glitzy presentations designed to churn the emotions and lower the capacity for critical thinking: the whole event is designed to whip people into a frenzy and make them forget that they’re losing money. Those who sit atop the pyramid structure are applauded and held up as an example of what is possible – if only you work hard enough and think the right thoughts! For these conventions, MLM companies pay celebrities millions of dollars to appear and say a few glowing words about the product. Unfortunately, many celebrities (or, rather, their agents) fail to do due diligence when accepting a speaking engagement; Madeline Albright spoke for Herbalife, probably not understanding the harmful nature of the company.

What Can Be Done?

Indeed, the greatest problem is one of awareness. Due to a mixture of non-disclosure/non-disparagement clauses and an ingrained culture of victim-blaming, those who have been scammed out of money by an MLM are unlikely to report or discuss their experiences, shame, and guilt closing their mouths. Lobbyists who wish to convince congress that calls for transparency are attempts to destroy their industry are aided and abetted by notable politicians Until they hear from more citizens who have lost money to these predatory companies, congress will continue to listen to the lobbyists and the politicians who earn millions from MLMs, such as Donald Trump and Ben Carson, and especially former education secretary Betsy DeVos’ family has earned millions from Amway.

Douglas Brooks has been fighting to raise awareness of the problem. I salute his efforts and want to emphasize the importance of his work. I have always spoken out for the de-stigmatizing of cult involvement, and it is even more necessary to speak out now.  If you or someone you know has been affected by an MLM, it is vital to make your voice heard. Writing to your congressman is easier than ever; each congressional office maintains a website where it costs you nothing to send your representative a message telling your story. Congress needs to hear from real people about the real harm that is being done, to counter the lies bought with stolen money by powerful lobbyists.

Further reading:

Douglas Brooks’ website, Pyramid Scheme Law

FOM Resource Page: Multi-Level Marketing

Multilevel Marketing and Consumer Protection

MLM Groups: Learn the Warning Signs

FOM Resource Page: Amway

Multi-Level Marketing Groups Defraud Consumers! 

Beware the Main Street Bubble

Pyramid Scheme Alert

MLM the truth

 www.mlmconference.com (information about the upcoming MLM conference as well as videos and materials from all of last year’s conference)

The post Talking MLMs with Douglas Brooks appeared first on Freedom of Mind Resource Center.

On Sunday, January 10, 2021, I was invited to answer questions during an Ask Me Anything (AMA) for the subreddit group QAnonCasualties. This is a link to the entire thread:  https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/kukco0/ama_with_steven_hassan_phd/. 

Below are most of the questions, along with my answers. This blog is longer than usual, but I felt it was important to include most of the questions and answers, since it is very timely and a great resource to have in one place.

To fully understand how to help friends and family that have been affected by QAnon, it is important to have a basic understanding of authoritarian control and destructive influence.

To start, please look at my Influence Continuum https://freedomofmind.com/influence-continuum/ and know that all cults are not destructive or authoritarian. Authoritarian beliefs are black and white, us vs. them, good vs. evil– very simplistic. 

There appears to be a significant number of people who have been lured into QAnon who were people raised in authoritarian family systems or cults. There were a number of questions about the “authentic self” and how people raised in these environments can be helped. I suggested people, who wish to know more about my approach to helping, view a video of a talk I gave in Stockholm, Sweden a bunch of years ago at a cult conference. It was entitled: Steven Hassan’s talk on Helping Individuals Born in High-Demand Groups and Cults. Here is the link to my talk.

Also, I just completed my doctoral work and published a blog about my research https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-of-authoritarian-control-undue-influence-thought-reform-brainwashing-mind-control-trafficking-and-the-law/ and the actual dissertation is now online for free.  It is my hope is that it now provides a validated framework for the justice system to evaluate ethical vs unethical influence. HINT: lying is unethical. So lack of “informed consent” is a huge factor in helping people exit cults- what did they think they were getting into at the beginning? And if they could go back in time to before they got into a group of movement, with what they know now, they need to honestly ask themselves whether they would have ever joined? 

Here is a direct link to the BITE model of Authoritarian Control applied to QAnon:

https://freedomofmind.com/qanon-and-the-bite-model-control-of-behavior-information-thoughts-and-emotions/ 

I leave you with a link to the media page for The Cult of Trump book. https://freedomofmind.com/the-cult-of-trump-media-page/ 

I hope this effort will bear good fruit for everyone. I thank the group for having me. 

Questions & Answers

Do you advocate debating or not debating friends and family regarding the beliefs promoted by the QAnon conspiracy movement? Is there any point to engage considering Trump has now lost the election? If you do advocate debating close friends and family, how does one go about doing so without destroying relationships? I have historically taken a path of non-confrontation but I am reconsidering my approach especially in light of recent events.

Thank you very much for doing this AMA and considering my questions!

Hassan: Debating is counterproductive. Build rapport and trust. So, if it is a family and friend, I recommend educating yourself first. Then reach out and tell the person you respect them (love them) or whatever is appropriate and remind them of positive experiences you did together. Tell them that you wish to be closer to them and ask them what you can do.

Hello Dr. Hassan, thank you for your excellent books. Actually just read the Trump one and your earlier books played a major role in me leaving the ultra-Orthodox “Baal t’shuvah” Jewish world (I am a mod of r/exjew.) 

One thing many people have commented on over the years is the propensity for some people to join multiple cult groups, leaving one only to join another or even belonging to multiple cult-like groups at once. In this environment, it seems like I’m seeing some people I’ve known over the years do similar things – at the behest of their rabbis, they are starting to move to social media that is isolationist and have misinformation, such as being Q leaning. Some people in the religious community I was in had converted from Very Q-esque Evangelical Christianity groups or eventually left for questionable new religious groups based on the same types of misinformation. I guess I was wondering if you had any insights on how society can get people away from these kinds of pockets of misinformation where they just kind of perpetually bounce between cultic groups. 

Hassan: Thank you. Yes, I wrote about the Jewish Right in The Cult of Trump book, and indeed, there are authoritarian Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. cults. 

To answer your question, if someone is born in an authoritarian family and/or cult- especially if there is corporal punishment to program obedience, that abuse forms some very deep emotional patterns. Exiting, without specialized counseling where part of the therapy is psycho-educational about destructive cult brainwashing, makes people very susceptible to being attracted to another authoritarian cult. There is a pattern that if one of your parents is a narcissist, you might be attracted to marry a narcissist- unconsciously. 

The effort is to heal. But I have seen sexual abuse victims join guru cults or Trump cult, as unconsciously the patterns of the abuser still hold power with some people. many people unfortunately, turn to drugs or alcohol, or avoid any commitments for fear of being harmed again. My work has been to help people be fully functional and utilize their talents. 

So yesterday, someone suggested that I should check out this subreddit for advice on how to make a family member open their eyes and stop listening to all the Qanon cult nonsense that has been brainwashing this family member. 

I wanted to wait until today when this AMA started to ask for advice. This family member is very close, they’re also extremely close minded. Attempting to have a civil argument with them about anything is near impossible. This family member has also been spreading qanon conspiracies to their relatives, and I’m afraid of the larger damage this may cause in the long run. 

I apologize if I sound a little desperate for help, but I would really appreciate any help u/StevenHassanFOM or any fellow redditors could provide. 

Hassan: Welcome. This is why I consented to give a Sunday to answering questions for this. There is hope but as it took time to recruit and indoctrinate your loved one, there is a project to help them wake up and then recover from their involvement. 

You can make it easier for people to exit or harder. I say do everything you can do with love and respect. Don’t yell. Don’t call them stupid or call them names. Take a stance that you respect them, respect their intelligence (many “Trumpers” have graduate education, top jobs)–being deceived has nothing to do with intelligence. 

Dr. Hassan, thanks so much for doing this. The online nature of this cult makes it quite unique compared to what we’ve known traditionally. 

So one unique question we get is how to best deal with the person on a day-to-day basis. What general principles can you suggest, especially for when loved one constantly pick fights and want to discuss conspiracies and politics as nauseam?  

Hassan: Yes! Have you read my book, The Cult of Trump yet? It really has been totally validated. I do not recommend handing a Trump believer the book. 

I must confess that I am far more comfortable speaking that typing. 

The cult member keeps trying to persuade you, it sounds like. So you need to set some rules or boundaries. For example, if someone sent you 20 links of things they want you to read/ watch. Tell them that you care about them and that truth matters. And that in the end, you still want to have a positive relationship with them, no matter what. Ask them to send one link and agree to read or watch if they promise to discuss with you. Ask them if they would be willing to reciprocate and be prepared to give them one link. Ask them what they think of it? Discuss. Learn how to listen and not just react or argue. Asking questions is the single most important technique but the way you ask needs to be curious and respectful, not angry or judgemental. I wrote a blog on freedomofmind.com about three must see documentaries to understand 21st century mind control cults. https://freedomofmind.com/social-media-cyber-warfare-data-mining-and-ai-used-to-target-manipulate-and-control-people/ 

How can therapists help clean up the aftermath of Q on mental health when (if) this all ends? I didn’t learn about anything like this in school. 

Hassan: Great point. The DSM5 of the APA has 300.15 designation of brainwashing, thought reform coercive persuasion/ cults as a dissociative disorder. This makes sense to me. I have been teaching mental health professionals for decades now. 

Here is a link to my Psychiatry Grand Rounds talk at Harvard Medical School in 2017. While it is aimed towards clinicians, most people will be able to understand my points. But training mental health professionals will be vital going forward. https://vimeo.com/236994306  and a review of my book in the Psychiatric Times.

After the DC Capitol raid, my Qperson has said that they don’t agree with the raid but don’t think Trump incited anything. While I think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance going on and some unraveling, I still think my Qperson has been pushed even closer to Trump and QAnon. 

What are some questions to ask to start a deradicalization process? And is it possible to have this type of contact with someone from far away (I live 2-3 hours away and they are a Covid denier). 

My Qperson is not very open about talking about their beliefs. And they tend to push away questions or feelings. They have always been bound to the toxic masculinity of not showing emotions (emotions are weak). He truly believes Trump is the Messiah- and they thought this before QAnon may have even gotten to them. 

It has been very difficult to want to even try to start a deradicalization process because I know he will shut it down fast or use fallacy reasoning to turn it around on me. And there’s been light emotional abuse. He is cold and he moves farther and farther away from family thinking he has this special knowledge and we are all sheep. Love feels conditional and cold. I think his friends believe the same conspiracy theories. 

Is an appeal to emotion a good idea? Saying something like: “Your family needs you. Not these people. WE need you.” Or is that unhelpful? Would it be better to be blunt: “This should be a wakeup call” and then write about the links between fascism and QAnon? 

Thank you for your time. 

Hassan: I am really unable to type fast enough to answer complex questions without folks being willing to learn the basics about any destructive cult. 

Stop trying to win the argument of who is right or wrong. take your ego out of this. Talk about your relationship and how you care about the person. Say things like, you aren’t sure- that gives them permission to question, too. If you insist you know the truth, that often makes people dig in deeper. 

The biggest ally is the person’s authentic self- that is who will help them exit, not their cult identity- which is programmed. 

One of the most important things to help anyone reevaluate their beliefs systems is to find a way to get them to take a “time out”- stop being online, watching certain news shows. sleep, exercise, listen to music, dance, have fun. 

PAY ATTENTION. Is what you say and do empowering the person to feel closer to you? be open to listening or learning? or shutting them down and making them angry? First step in my Strategic Interaction Approach is rapport and Trust building. If you do not have this, stop everything else until you get back in positive connection. 

Hey Steve, I’ve followed your commentary on NXIVM (I mod a forum at r/theNXIVMcase) and I’m glad you’re here to talk about QAnon. 

I’d like to ask you about how often Q material gets brought up in the context of online discussions of truly serious scandals (including NXIVM, but also stuff like Epstein). I’ve seen it suck people in. It’s serious enough that when I created a forum on NXIVM, I had to explicitly ban Q people from the get-go. 

My question is, is there any way to Q-proof the news so it does not just go into the gaping maw of these people, and is there any way of really shutting down that kind of discussion effectively short of banning people? Thanks. 

Hassan: So, when you read The Cult of Trump (btw, you can get on audio from your library, as well as e-book or paperback) you will learn that there are authoritarian cults influencing Trump and whose followers are his base. 

Russian intelligence agents, hired Americans as well as Americans suckked into the Q cult are out messaging- and yes bots too. It is cyber warfare of the psyops variety. We are in a war and getting educated is the first best thing to do. We will need millions of people to get educated to reach out to the millions of Trump cult believers. 

I strongly recommend watching the VOW and Seduced- docs on NXIVM. Why? one of the main techniques to help a cult member is to use ANOTHER cult to educate- Raniere was convicted and sentenced to 120 years in jail for trafficking. I have a number of blogs on my website on NXIVM.

What would be your top piece of advice for those of us losing loved ones to this cult craziness and illogical thinking? 

Hassan: Educate yourselves first about my Influence Continuum and BITE model of Authoritarian Control. Learn about other destructive cults. Know that mind control indoctrination is not permanent. There is hope, but in order to be effective, there are strategic rules to learn. 

I would add that trying to reason, provide facts and WIN the argument will only backfire. Adopt a curious, concerned approach. You might need to focus on rapport and trust building first before anything. Apologize if you said harsh, mean, derogatory things. 

Dr. Hassan, why do you think QAnon absorbs people so quickly and completely? Within days, someone can go from being apolitical or left-leaning to being full-on Q. This seems different from other cults, where it may take months or longer, and therefore to narrow the window where friends and family can intervene. Thanks for being here today! 

Hassan: I have watched some of their recruitment videos- they are effective- if you do not understand propaganda, or you trust the people in the docs as experts- which they are not (for the most part). What is confusing for many is why would Flynn, Binney and other former high level intelligence officers be involved with QAnon? Why would people become traitors to America? 

Well, if you are in an authoritarian cult like Opus Dei (Barr) and you believe the Pope is evil, and that the world is God vs Satan, and everyone who does not support your group is Satanic, and that the separation of Church and State which the Founding Fathers put into place, then you can justify lying and anything else, because the ends justify the means. 

Regarding the speed someone can be brought into a hypnotic trance and programmed, it depends on the operator and the target- but it can be minutes. The good news is the waking up can be that fast too. 

Dr Hassan, I am a huge admirer of your work and have followed you for many years. Thank you for doing this. 

My question is: as someone who has been working on cult deprogramming for many decades, have you ever seen anything akin to what we are facing with Qanon at the moment? And are there historical parallels we can point to when trying to speak with Qult members that might help them see what they are a part of? Thank you! 

Hassan: Thank you for your kind words. NO. I have never encountered anything like what we are seeing today. I believe it is because we are now addicted to a digital environment and devices. One really has to watch the 3 docs I mentioned earlier here. 

One point I have not yet made today- the importance of customizing the generic advice I offer in all my books to be effective on the specific person you wish to positively influence. One needs to “step into” their mindset- knowing who they were before entering the cult and what was important to them. Also really listen to how they came to believe- if they say they watched a particular movie or went to a rally or whatever, the details matter a lot. 

I make my living by people either hiring me to coach them on how to help a loved one or helping an ex-member recover. I am overwhelmed with work, as you can imagine. I hope people with money and resources approach me soon to develop programs to help correct what has happened. Training programs, social media platform changes, educational efforts through the media. I am optimistic that we can turn this nightmare into really reforming America. But the structural corruption, the infiltration by authoritarian cults into our government, intelligence agencies, police forces, media, justice system needs to be corrected. People with power and money, if they have integrity and conscience could do so much. Sometimes I think about Michael Bloomberg and him spending $1 billion dollars on Presidential run, if he put that money to more effective use. 

Dr. Hassan thank you for your time. How do you see us taking and combating this in the future? My primary concern is the apparent dissolution of imperial fact. How do we protect academic and political institutions from this? Similar things are going on with climate change deniers. should we be holding media more accountable, or how do we restore faith in science and logic and fact?

Hassan: I wrote about 4th generation warfare in my book- I did a blog too and interviewed one of the top experts on this. 

Facts matter. Truth matter. Real experts are experts because they have spoken a long time learning a topic (I have 44 years since leaving the cult). 

We do not live in a post truth world. We live in the age of Influence. Learn to discern using the Influence Continuum and BITE model of Authoritarian Control. 

Do you think that the QAnon cult/political movement is going to continue and, in a way, become emboldened after Trump leaves office? Or will have more of its followers move themselves to act out in more desperation? 

Hassan: I wrote a blog for NBC news- I predict QAnon will mostly go away and probably take a bunch of their members into other nonsense. But most will exit- especially if the media wises up, we amplify the voices of former cult members (all former cult members). 

We truly appreciate your time and effort, Dr. Hassan, in reaching out to us. I have read your blogs and books involving cults and watched your YouTube videos. Thank you for spreading the awareness. 

Here are my questions: 1) Our mom has a take-charge personality, a natural-born leader who can be stubborn about things she believes in. She has likewise convinced many of her friends to believe in QAnon and continues to watch videos almost the whole day. What can we do to break this pattern? 2) Will it help if you suddenly make the QAnon member lose complete access to all her social media account? 3) Can you give examples of respectful, nonjudgmental questions that we can ask QAnon members? 4) We have an idea on the people who may be feeding our mom information about QAnon. Do you have a suggestion on how we can cut off their communication or lessen it at least? 5) What are your suggestions for a non-QAnon family member who has been made to join a QAnon echo chamber? What are helpful ways/strategies the non-QAnon person could do in that group to sow seeds of doubt to the members? 

Hassan: Have you watched the doc the Social Dilemma with her? BTW, I always tell my clients to watch or read things I recommend first BEFORE sharing with cult members- so you are not surprised and to know whether or not it would be helpful. 

It sounds like you are not approaching this incrementally. But yes, if you can persuade her to stop watching/doing social media for a week–go to the woods–that will help a lot. If you watch https://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/ Jen’s dad got ill and all his talk radio, FOX news, etc. was turned off and he became himself again. 

It is impossible for me to do justice to all your questions. A future program involving video is what i need because 95% of communication is nonverbal.  

Learning about social psychology and sharing this is great first steps. I have gotten into a series on the National Geographic channel called Brain Games. If your mom is smart and likes to be in charge, ask her to watch an episode with you. If you can get her interested, one learns how little humans use reasoning, or interact with reality- versus our internal models of reality. 

Thank you for doing this. I just finished my master’s degree in counseling. I feel a bit of a calling to become trained to support friends and family members as well as those in a cult. Between the pandemic and the election, we have not only collective trauma as a nation, but also the trauma from the Q anon and Trump cults. Do you offer training and certification or do you know of any? I can read your books of course. More hands-on training with a clinical lens would be most beneficial. I live in AZ, so there is a huge need. 

Hassan: We will need tens of thousands of therapists and citizens to learn how to help. I am not aware of a single program in the US (yet) that offers training and credentialing in working with mind control victims. There is a program in the UK- a single one. But it is not a hands-on thing- more theoretical. 

I am hoping to post an online course to teach cult basics. when it is finished, I will do a blog about it on this site. Feel free to subscribe to a once a week email of my blog plus media I did that week, if you like.

Do you have any recommendations for recovering codependents who want to talk to QAnon-believing-loved-ones? I’m finding it really difficult to follow the advice from “Combating Mind Control” without suppressing/denying my own feelings of outrage that my loved ones have fallen for such nonsense. How can we help our loved ones become their authentic selves again without suppressing our own authentic selves in the process? 

Probably the less complicated questions: my loved ones have always listened to Rush Limbaugh and they’ve had times they realized he’s lying and stopped listening to him, but they always go back. And now that they’re getting sucked into QAnon I wonder: did Limbaugh “pave the way” for QAnon? What would you like to see happen as far as mind control tactics on radio and TV goes? Is education about the BITE model the only way to combat this without “infringing on free speech”? 

Hassan: Well, if you understand the process of how people get deceptively recruited into a destructive cult, then you will be less angry and outraged at them (for being harmed). Regarding codependency, the best advice is to get to good therapist who can help you build a healthy self. A healthy self does not NEED to depend on someone else. They can CHOOSE to be interdependent, but this comes from strength, not weakness. 

Rush Limbaugh is indeed the way many people got sucked into the right-wing political stuff. When people drive long distances/ spend long periods in their vehicles- much of what comes through the radio goes straight into our unconscious. This is why advertising works- it is rarely fact that drives us to believe we need to buy something. 

The Influence Continuum and BITE model help, but everyone needs to learn to be an educated consumer. You have to stop yourselves if you feel addicted to your social media or whatever. You should be in control of your B-I-T-E and make sure you stay grounded and balanced and choose reputable sources for information.  

Is there any hope when a spouse of 33 years believes I am a “demon”, and that what is clearly live footage on tv is “not real”?

Hassan: If most of the 33 years was positive, then I am very hopeful! And regarding them thinking you are a demon, that was my Moonie mindset to anyone who spoke against Father Moon. BTW, Moon’s son, who has a gun church, brought a busload of Moonies to DC for Wednesday’s debacle. 

Second question so I don’t mind if it’s not answered, but do you think having sites like Parler taken down and Q conspiracy Twitter accounts removed will ultimately help the followers move away from their way of thinking? 

Hassan: Dave Troy, a tech research expert did the Dismantling QAnon TEDx thing. https://freedomofmind.com/dismantling-qanon-a-tedxmidatlantic-must-watch-program/ and the video is 90 minutes long but a must see. Dave Troy has researched Parler.

De-platforming is a mixed bag. I am glad they are doing it but it forces the cultists further into the shadows which is bad. Ideologically, I spoke out against Russia for banning Scientology and the Jehovah’s Witnesses because it makes the cult members feel persecuted and pushes them underground where it is harder to influence them. 

Dr. Hassan, thank you so much for being here. You are an invaluable resource and I am a long admirer of your work. I have tried wording this as simply as possible & I understand if you cannot answer, I apologize, if this is confusing. 

Does the anti-Marxist/Jewish Question core of the Q-conspiracy reflect that the nature of the disinformation is at least “inspired by” soviet propaganda in the 1920s/30s? (Like the white army in Russian civil war and the re-birth of the blood libel/”on the altar of the international”/ anti-Trotsky, anti-Marxist, JQ propaganda tactics) Seems like they are using those same divisionary tactics play-by-play. Not throwing shade at Russia, I know people are not their government. Is tying Marxism/socialism to evil and making it indefensible the ultimate goal of the people at the top of your pyramid? (Obviously not the random idiots that started 8chan but the more insidious people that have used the conspiracy to gain power.) 

Hassan: Lyndon LaRouche was conspiracy political cult leader who went far left to far right- he was friends with Roger Stone and has been in bed with Russian intelligence – well he is dead now- but it was LaRouche who made up the anti-Soros conspiracy crap and yes these can be traced back to the Protocol of the Elders of Zion- a propaganda piece done by Russia. 

I do wish to say categorically I am for human rights and against authoritarianism. This is far better frame to use going forward than right or left. Because there can be authoritarianism (and is) on the left, as there is on the right. The Christian Right in the Cult of Trump are anti-democratic and a threat to freedom. They must be shut down. I am for religious freedom but this does not mean if you call yourself a religion you get to lie to them to recruit them, enslave people and exploit them. 

Dr. Hassan thank you for your time. What would you say on three subjects? When is it appropriate to cut off a friend or loved one caught in this, keeping in mind your advice to leave a door open? What would you say to those who have very hard feelings or hate towards QAnon people? What would you say to folk who claim that we, being against QAnon are ourselves in a cult? 

Hassan: I absolutely do not think it is good to entirely cut friends and loved ones off. You can say you need a time out (for yourself) and will circle back. But you can share photos, videos, and other positive memories- talk sports, music, art other topics which are not controversial. 

I highly recommend a book by Celeste Headlee called We Need to Talk. She did TED talks, too. I listened to her book on audible as she read it. The book has NOTHING to do with cults- but focuses on teaching people how to talk and mostly listen with curiosity rather than judgement. 

To your final question: I do not believe all cults are bad or authoritarian. But i do believe we need to be open to new ideas to learn. I also believe we need critical thinking abilities and reality-testing strategies. Many people have seen stage hypnotists like Derren Brown. As I wrote in the Cult of Trump, hypnotic techniques and patterns are used by #Cult45 and his minions. Learn about hypnosis. BTW, there are trained mental health professionals who practice hypnotherapy. It is a powerful approach, but don’t go to coaches and non-credentialed people, as they can mess with your head. 

Will prosecuting people involved in the Insurrection just give fuel to their fire by creating martyrs for their cause? How do you propose this is handled in a way that doesn’t give them more power? 

Hassan: I believe it is 100% necessary to arrest and prosecute everyone- especially the Republican leadership supporting the BIG LIE that Trump won the election. The enablers need to be held responsible. 

Hello, I have recently lost a close family member because of QAnon theories. He uses the point that it’s ok to have differing views and I need to allow others to have their own views and opinions. 

I feel complicit allowing him to have a view and opinion so insanely wrong that it makes me feel like the crazy one. What is the best way to approach this when those views and opinions are so blatantly wrong and baseless? 

Hassan: This brings up an important point. Usually, family and friends were aware of the person getting influenced and did not invest in helping them and now may feel guilty or complicit that their loved one is in danger. 

Use those feelings to move you to constructive activity. Educate yourself, educate others. Build a team. Listen to ex-Q people and empower them; some may need some support and help. I strongly recommend americandignitypac.com. It was formed to make a documentary of ex-Trump followers. I was interviewed in it, as were some other professionals. (They need money to finish the documentary and get it to be seen by the masses.) If you know people who do PR and wish to help, amplify my messages and messages of other experts speaking out intelligently, too. 

Do you think the current de-platforming will help people unwind out of this cult? 

Hassan: Less contact with cult info is better. The danger is the people follow Trump on to other platforms which have no checks and balances. Please remember Putin has been waging psyops on us- they are called “Active Measures”. 

Do you believe another, larger movement will emerge from QAnon? 

Hassan: NO, I do not believe QAnon will get bigger, but so much depends on the Biden administration and other people of influence who wish to truly make America recover from the mess we are in. 

The Trump administration and supporting parties have created a scalable model of cult manipulation that could mutate into a new thing be the prototype of mass manipulations in the future. 

What are the new innovations of QAnon’s manipulation schemes that have never been seen before? 

Do you think what is happening with QAnon will be reproduced or integrated in other extremist movements such as ISIS? 

What are government policies that should be advocated to prevent that? Could these policies be enacted without infringing on personal liberties? 

Hassan: Excellent questions all! 

I did deep research into ISIS recruiting online in 2015, and I was at top security meeting to discuss how to counter them online. What I have learned since is amazing and frightening- if used by authoritarians- as it is being used. AI is a big part of this- Data collection (5000 point of information has been collected on every voting American). QAnon, last I hear, was in 80 countries but not everyone of these has Trump as the world savior. 

Aside from Global climate crisis, unethical mind control technologies and techniques are our 2nd biggest priority- well after getting the pandemic stopped and entities in place for next pandemic. 

My doctoral dissertation gives a framework, I believe, for all government policies. It is clear to me that the two poles of the Continuum are authoritarians who are corrupt malignant narcissists (for the most part) and democratic human rights devotees. This is a global fact. We KNOW Putin is a political cult leader and runs a dictatorship, but “Trumpers” have been programmed to believe Russia is benign- and only China is a danger. China is absolutely huge authoritarian danger. But we have to get America functioning again. 

Lastly, a reminder it is illegal to scream fire in a crowded theatre- but only if there isn’t a fire. Free Speech has responsibilities- and lies should NOT be given equal time in the media to facts. 

Like many others, I have friends & loved ones who have succumbed Trump, Q, etc. and now basically live in a completely false reality. 

I understand the tactics of being respectful, asking questions, don’t try to “win” the argument, etc….but I find that no matter what, we always reach an impasse because of the massive distrust they have for other than what comes from Trump and his devotees. They have been indoctrinated to completely and automatically dismiss anything from me (because I’m not a Trump supporter) or any credible news source. Many of them don’t even have a fundamental understanding how the internet works, and how info (or false info) gets delivered to us. 

Given this, how can we ever help them make the leap between the fantasy world and the real world? 

Hassan: By de-platforming Trump, we have taken a positive first step; however, impeachment if it happens and if the Senate is able to vote to convict him soon, this will neutralize the story of how Trump will remain in power- because he will lose his government benefits and never be able to run again. I am not sure the Senate will get the chance to vote. I hear McConnell say he would not bring to vote before the 19th. 

In case you haven’t noticed it- the big media giants have censored me and my colleagues. they have censored Bandy Lee, editor of the Dangerous Case of Donald Trump. Hopefully, the media moguls will stop the censorship and allow us to teach to the public. I do believe people reading the Cult of Trump book gives them an explanatory framework which is based in fact and offers a way forward. 

Going back to January 6th, when you first started to see the footage coming in of the siege of the Capitol building, what were your thoughts when you first saw the QAnon Shaman? Have you seen this video? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/ktfsb8/the_q_shaman_has_something_to_say_not_crazy_at_all/ 

I agree wholeheartedly that QAnon is an intentional alternative reality game. From my perspective, this improv actor decked out like Enkidu and obsessed with neuro-linguistic programming won the firsts level of The Storm. 

How do I even begin to explain hypnotherapy, active imagination, Cybernetics, trance-formations and NLP to people who think magic is something that only exists in Walt Disney movies? 

Hassan: Well, I just watched the 10-minute video and thank you for sharing with me. I think this is short enough to put on my calendar to do a critique of what he said and I guess this is the same guy arrested for invading the Capitol. 

I have too much to comment on. However, people do need to know that even in Scientology, some of things in their doctrine are true. Regarding MkUltra, Operation Mockingbird, Paperclip, these are all documented and factual. My cult, I found out later, was used by the CIA / KCIA (South Korean) to brainwash South Korean dissidents in order to counter North Korean brainwashing programs. This is a fact I can demonstrate. the Moonies were brought to the US to recruit on college campuses (where I was recruited) to be anti-communist and counter the anti-Vietnam war protest movement. The own and operate the Washington Times newspaper and so much more… 

Regarding NLP, MKultra records do say Milton Erickson was consulted. Erickson was a psychiatrist who pioneered a much more effective hypnosis approach, one that was put into a structure by Grinder and Bandler which they called NLP. I was trained in NLP in 1980/81 and I got disillusioned when I realized they were teaching an amoral system which could be easily abused to harm people. i wanted to learn hypnosis but was told I needed a Master’s degree in counseling to be taught Ericksonian hypnosis. So, in 1985 I got my first Master’s (I now have two) and became a mental health professional- dedicated to “do no harm” and to help people and not harm them. 

Much of what the guy in the video said called be seen as projection- a technique the Cult of Trump uses all the time. The fact is Trump is a sex abuser and a known convicted trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell introduced him to Melania. I will be surprised if Trump does not pardon Maxwell before he is kicked out of office. I have co developed the first program for trafficking survivors to understand pimp mind control. Learn more by going to endingthegame.com. 

NLP, hypnosis are techniques to manipulate people- the best way to protect yourself is to learn about it. It is not magical. 

My Q-person spends a lot of time watching long videos. To me, they seem like they are brainwashing videos and are constructed in a particular way to draw a person in, lower their rational defenses and convince them of unproven things. It reminds me a little of Tony Robbins. 

Do you know of any videos or articles that deconstruct the techniques these videos use? 

Hassan: Long videos are indeed what gets people programmed, especially if the person is sleep deprived, or watching late at night, or watching stoned or drunk- this doesn’t help either. 

If I had the time and help, I do believe examining the cult videos and recording an analysis while watching one, would probably be a very useful tool to help people exit. Ex-QAnon folks can be especially helpful to help call out the lies and disinformation. Have you watched the 90 min Dismantling QAnon TEDx I was involved in? Strongly recommend this. 

I know when exiting the Moon cult, I went back and reread Master Speaks lectures, reread the cult book (the Divine Principle), the Bible, and talked to many theologians and asked questions. 

I have a question that I have been struggling with for a long time. My brother (we’re both in our 20s) is a diehard, day-one Q follower. Over the past four years he’s gone from a “Bernie Bro” to an eschatological far-right nationalist and evangelical Christian. We grew up in a liberal, secular house, and he’s somehow managed to keep all of his beliefs secret from our parents and the rest of our family–because, although he’s fully down the rabbit hole, he still understands the blowback that “coming out” as a Q-follower would cause. Part of me wants to expose him to my parents so they can join my “fight” to bring him back to reality, but I also don’t want to potentially further strain his familial relations. He and I are barely on speaking terms at this point. Is it better for him to have blissfully unaware parents, or parents who actually understand what’s happening to him? 

I kept his belief in Q a secret for years because I assumed it was just an embarrassing phase he would grow out of, but it’s ruining his life now and I fear for what might happen in the weeks and months to come. 

Hassan: Hard for me to advise in just a couple of paragraphs but generically, start by educating yourself by reading the three books posted at the top of this AMA. Then think about who else you can approach to build a team. I recommend you approach a person you wish to discuss it with this way- first, say, “I wish to have a confidential conversation with you about X. Are you concerned too? If so, give me your word, that what we discuss will be kept just between us.” If the person agrees and your trust them, impress on them that you are concerned that X might find out and it will make the problem even more difficult. Eventually you will say the same to your parents- what you don’t want is them flying off the handle and confronting your brother- it will probably make things worse. Build a team. In the meanwhile, I have given a lot of advice about steps to take to build rapport with your brother- let him feel that you love him no matter what, and you want to build trust so he feels ok sharing his thoughts and feelings with you. 

And Do NOT shame him or anyone who is starting to express doubts. Don’t say, I told you so, or How could you believe this crap? Be compassionate, patient and keep saying if something is true, it will stand up to scrutiny. 

What do you feel about the subject of shame and how effective it is to combat the spreading of “lesser-popular” ideas? And how the perspective on shame being changed over the last couple of decades have perhaps affected the rise and attraction of conspiracy theories and sharing of conspiracy theories and alt-right ideologies?

Hassan: I believe that the nihilistic- “you create your own reality” and other forms of magical thinking is quite destructive- if people are not also thinking critically. 

I started in previous post to talk about the scientific method- what I wish to add to that is that it is a community (worldwide) effort, not an individual thing. So, I did a quantitative study on my BITE model, but I expect there will be many people out to prove me wrong, or who come up with a better theory/method to explain the phenomenon. My commitment is to help people, not to validate my own theories. If something is true, it will be borne out. People have been reading my first book since 1988 and countless people have read it and exited a destructive cult–even when born into it. So, I know I captured the patterns, at least many of them, that matter. 

But I am a 66-year-old who has never done video gaming. I credit Jim Stewartson- one of the original developers of Alternate reality gaming– to explain to me that this is the foundation of QAnon. He showed me hypnotic NL stuff inserted into Assassin’s Creed to get people indoctrinated into Cicada3301 which was the precursor to QAnon. There is so much more to learn. 

I was wondering if people with strong tendencies to fall for conspiracies (flat earth, QAnon, etc.) are capable of self-reflection, and if so, what are the current statistics that suggest full recovery. 

Hassan: The major first technique for mind controlling people is confusing them- overloading them with information is the most common method. Whenever there is economic uncertainty, people are more susceptible to have a narrative to explain how this happened. It helps us feel more secure and gives us hope. 

As a mental health professional, I want to encourage everyone to be functional and to do this in pandemic times of social isolation, people are especially vulnerable. It is a coping mechanism to believe that COVID is not deadly- makes it easier to rationalize not wearing a mask etc. 

There are no statistics that I am aware of regarding recovery, much less full recovery. There is so much research that needs to be done to show that mind control (undue influence) is a public health problem- that people have breakdowns, commit suicide, become addicts… so much needs to be done 

How do you think the Qanon rioters who stormed the capitol will react after being accused of being ANTIFA? I’ve seen some photoshopped images where the rioters were placed in front of a green screen to make the riot appear fake. Will some of them snap out of it once they realize they have become victims of the conspiracy themselves? 

Hassan: There are many things that can be done to help people wake up. Asking questions to people who went to DC to answer honestly. How many people did you see/meet, talk with who said they were Antifa? is it possible, the people accused of being antifa were actually Trump supporters or their paid agents? 

What I’ve told the family member: “We love each other and that’s the foundation. Any news or ideas that we can’t personally verify together, let’s just see those as interesting theories we can share with each other but keep an open mind.” 

Good idea or would you recommend differently? 

Hassan: I like it. I would tweak it. 

Look, I know you are very intelligent (educated or whatever is appropriate, but don’t overdo it) and that you have integrity. I know you would never knowingly believe anything that is fraudulent or do anything that would be hurtful, so let’s agree to start here. And if something is true it will stand up to scrutiny. But the burden of proof lies on the person (side) who has the most controversial/ extreme beliefs to prove it and not on us to disprove it. for example, someone has a cream and the claim is it cures breast cancer. While it would be great if the cream actually works, without double blinded, replicated studies, why spend large amounts of money on something based on a commercial or someone’s anecdotal evidence? The folks I have talked to about QAnon all still believe Trump will be in power after Jan 20th and have told me if he isn’t, they are done with QAnon. So, we will see.  

Plus, the vast majority of news doesn’t affect our day to day lives, so it’s easy just ignore my family member’s ideas, but over time it gotten more engrained and illogical… Still, does it really matter? 

Hassan: I believe in Freedom of Mind. This means, if you are an adult, you should control your own mind. Not someone else or some ideology. You should have an INTERNAL locus of control and not an EXTERNAL locus of control. 

QAnon and Trump cult members repeated say things like, “do the research or “I have done the research” and you need to have them tell you what they mean precisely. Have they sought out critics and former members? Experts in related fields of study? or just researched by depending on the people who recruited and indoctrinated you? 

Keep coming back to: If something is true, it will stand up to scrutiny. And that if they can prove it to you, you will believe it too. 

Do you have any thoughts on nature vs nurture when it comes to susceptibility to a cult or psyop? 

Hassan: Yes- It is the social influences and the lack of inoculation/ education that makes folks the most vulnerable. 

My loved one has been taking everything Donald Trump says as the gospel truth, even when I cite articles that provide evidence to refute a claim. He is a very intelligent man, and to see him retweeting false information or believing blatant falsehoods is very concerning- he just told me today that the Pope and Italian government changed the Dominion systems. 

My question is: How can I help my loved one to verify information before believing something that he used to find extreme? 

Hassan: Alex Jones has done over 1000 propaganda stories from Russia- these got amplified by Breitbart, then Fox and others. Remember how he said Sandy Hook shootings were fake? made it a conspiracy? 

Well, he was sued and forced under oath to admit he was wrong and he even said (in a deposition) that he was psychotic. Dominion voting machines has filed a billion-dollar lawsuit for lies being told about them; this will bring the truth forward. 

It was all these lawsuits Trump’s people filed that got turned down that demonstrated there was NO Evidence of widespread voter fraud. Facts matter. But the issue, as I have repeatedly said is- the burden of proof is on them to prove there was fraud, not just say it. 

How many people do you think are in this Qult right now? In the USA, and the around the world? 

Hassan: I do not know but I believe it is probably in the millions, unfortunately. I saw Ron Suskind on MSNBC the other night and he predicted that after Biden’s inauguration, that most Trump devotees will fall away- i believe this too- especially if the Biden admin is smart and strategic. but he estimated 15 million people would do anything for Trump including acts of violence. That number is probably right- certainly not 70 million… but even 1 million people willing to die or kill is frightening. I should state categorically that I was prepared to kill or die on command without hesitation or doubt when in the cult. partly why I have dedicated my life work to exposing this phenomenon. 

What emboldens a cult, and what weakens it? What are the most effective deradicalization measures aimed at individuals? 

Hassan: The question is so broad- political cult of QAnon, I assume because there are so many other kinds of bad cults. 

What emboldens is media amplification, enablers and other authority figures giving their weight to it- so when Pat Robertson said God wanted Trump to be President, people who trust him voted for Trump in 2016. When Robertson says, Trump is over and lost the election, the same person who was a Trump believer is likely to not follow him anymore. 

What weakens Trump is investigative reporting and leaks from his own administration and especially people he appointed and trusted and now speaks out against him. Chris Krebs was the cybersecurity (Republican guy_ appointed by Trump who made sure the election was secure. When Trump did not like him saying this- he was fired- but Krebs still speaks out saying that Trump is telling the BIG LIE- that Trump won by a landslide- however there is NO Evidence (Barr said this too) that election was stolen or should have been won by Trump. 

Regarding the most effective deradicalization approach aimed at individuals is explicated in my Freedom of Mind book. Creating a team of family, friends, ex-members and others to do an ethical influence campaign aimed at empowering the person to think for themselves. Far better than strangers are people who know the person’s authentic self and how they changed when radicalized. For example, in chapter 10 of the book, I teach a 3-step phobia cure intervention. But the best person at a good moment and context needs to do it. When the person is estranged from everyone, building rapport and trust always needs to comes first. 

Hello Dr. Hassan. When I saw your name, I decided to pick up The Cult of Trump as an audio book, so far, I have thoroughly been enjoying it. 

Are there any other authors or readings you recommend when it comes to looking into cults and manipulative behaviors and how to avoid them? Trump has proven his strategies to be effective: how concerned do you think we should be about other politicians, on either side of the aisle, attempting to recreate his success in the future? Additionally, I saw you would not recommend giving The Cult of Trump to a Trump supporter to read; are there any other books or readings you would say are good recommendations for people who may have fallen for Trump’s tactics? 

I appreciate you taking your time to answer our questions. 

Hassan: I am glad to hear you are enjoying listening to the audiobook. I read the book. 

The overall strategy is finding what will work with the person you care about- and that is trial and error/ feedback. Does the person you care about like to read books? if not, what do they like? podcasts? videos? I have been putting out a ton of content over many years. 

Have you all watched the FAMILY on Netflix? It is a cult that has infiltrated American politics for over 80 years. Watch it. then you might ask your loved one to watch it- it only gets to Trump the last episode or so. the idea is to use anything as a way to discuss and learn and share. 

Does the person you care about think Scientology is a bad cult? Leah Remini’s series is on Netflix too. – I am aware that several QAnon people told me they don’t watch Netflix because Obama has a deal to produce things there but you can share other things- even offer to buy a subscription for a year… back to Scientology, or NXIVM there are so many good things out there now- especially former cult members material. 

To help a loved one is it necessary to allow them to send you links to gain trust? I made a pretty big boundary with my sister-in-law to not send me things and it went downhill from there. We aren’t interacting but I am concerned how far she has gone down the rabbit hole. I would like to build trust again to help her get out of this. 

Hassan: I recommend NOT shutting down communication which includes saying you do not wish to see anything. Seeing what they send you and discussing is a major positive thing to do. But I think most people act in an all or nothing way. Be balanced. Do not lose your center. 

I recommend saying something like, I love you or I respect and care deeply about you- what can I do to restore some of the trust we used to have in each other? if it is said sincerely, be patient, and let them think. My clients always rush through things. give lots of silence- especially after you ask a good question. wait for an answer and if they deflect or change the subject, gently point this out and ask them for a response. 

Do you think the fact that Q indoctrinates people by posing questions and inviting people to “do their own research” changes how best to “unprogram” these people, compared to traditional cults, where they listen solely to a religious leader? 

Hassan: Most cults when someone is being recruited tells them to “not take anything on faith, and do your research, and please leave if you do not agree” but these are words for strategy not in reality. Most destructive cults tell their members, the door is there” but then what is meant is your life will fall apart, you will be possessed by demons, get cancer… there are 4 pages single spaced in Freedom of Mind of phobias I have encountered in destructive cults 

Is it common for people who belong to cults like religions, to have parents that believe you are their property, and not an individual? 

Hassan: I think so. Healthy parenting is developmentally appropriate- with the aim of empowering the child to fulfill their own unique talents and nature. So, healthy parents parent with an aim of the child becoming an individuated adult- who can think for themselves and not be obedient clones and just do what their parents tell them to do. I might add that women have been treated as property, abused exploited, misrepresented- this needs to change in a big way and is. 

Is MAGA the largest cult you have ever encountered? 

Hassan: Yes, I think so. Of course, I believe the Chinese govt has much more extreme control over far more people, but America is my country and as you will read in the Cult of Trump there are many cults that comprise the cult of trump. After the 20th of January, all the people in these cults will do whatever their leadership tells them to do, and if the leaders see Trump going to prison, or fleeing justice and moving to a country with no extradition, they are unlikely to remain devoted. Everyone is about to learn so much more about Russian involvement; however, the super hack done to our networks over the past several years might have erased a lot of the most incriminating evidence. Still there is human intelligence which will come forward, you will see. 

Hi, Dr. Hassan, I am new to your work but will definitely be reading it! My Question: I would like to know your thoughts on the degree to which the US’s puritanical heritage with its especially hardline attitude toward sexuality (or even just our Judeo-Christian heritage in general) has led to a nationwide epidemic of sexual repression, how that might make people more susceptible to fears about grandiose sexual perversions such as we see driving QAnon, and what might be some solutions for our culture on this topic. I have my own background in a cult-like Christian group and since leaving it have welcomed back my inherent sexuality (I’m cis-het, but I was still repressed), which has gone hand in hand with growth creatively, spiritually, and a general sense of happiness and well-being. Now I’m trying to bring this further into the conversation, primarily through writing. Thank you. 

Hassan: Thanks. I recommend reading Combating Cult Mind Control (CCMC), then Freedom of Mind– the book on how to help loved one. CCMC is meant to be read first. 

Regarding religion, I was raised conservative Jewish, and after exiting the Moonies was totally confused what i believed and why. Over decades of exploration, I found an approach that really resonated with me deeply- and it was renewal Judaism- where it is Gay friendly, Women’s rights, non-dogmatic, observed the many rituals, holidays, practices, but people do it out of choice and not coercion. For me a big reason I decided that for me, I did not believe in Christianity was this focus on evil, sin and Satan and the teaching that the body was evil and such. I am for healthy balance of mind and body and spirit. I have many Christian friends and they have a very mature, responsible approach to their faith and do not believe everyone but their group is destined for hell or is spiritually inferior. I personally believe in God, but she (ha) is not an anthropomorphism (projection of human). There is so much of reality humans do not know or understand. it helps to stay humble and open to learning. 

For sure we all have to focus on our planet’s survival and cooperation and collaboration between people who are free will always beat mind control clones of authoritarian cults 

I am committed to navigating support of my loved one with this rapport/love/non-judgmental advice you’ve mentioned. 

Often, when this sensitive topic of conspiracy theory / Q adjacent topics come up, my loved one will retreat to “I just don’t know.” and I can usually see their physiology shift, the wall goes up. For them, this doubt that it “just might be true” appears to be what keeps them linked in. 

This is after significantly reducing screen time, reducing IRL contact (due both to COVID, and my request that we do not take our children to playdates that are overtly anti-mask) – both of these circumstances also fuel that resentment of “this is all happening to us” — 

Any specific dialogical advice for when we get to “I just don’t know…maybe it could be true?” so that it doesn’t just become a conversation that dissolves and changes the focus, tone, intent of the moment? 

Hassan: The Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) is a big thing with humans. It is emotional, not rational. 

When anyone says, I just don’t know- this is good first step. You can agree. And then discuss how we can know for sure if something is true or not, real or not. But the answer is almost always through use of frontal cortex and reasoning and analyzing data. 

What I love about the scientific method is it deals with theories/ hypotheses and not TRUTH, as it assumes that if something is true that it is testable or provable. Humanity continues to evolve and our knowledge continues to grow. With all the cults and cases I have done over 40 years, every cult has its ideology and its founder/ leader and both can be subjected to careful, systematic analysis. The key to helping a cult member is not imposing your criteria on them, but getting them to become conscious of what their criteria was for getting involved- and what they would need to exit. often former members- especially ones close to the leader give ample evidence that the leader is not to be trusted. 

Vlog

Additional Resources: 

Dismantling QAnon: A TEDxMidAtlantic Program (90 minutes with David Troy, Jim Stewartson, Desiree Kane and myself)

QAnon and the BITE model 

Trump’s QAnon followers are a dangerous cult. How to save someone who’s been brainwashed. 

If Trump loses the election, QAnon will also lose support — and eventually disintegrate 

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